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Our fans' perception needs to change

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Red_Indian, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Red_Indian

    Red_Indian New Member

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    The title says it all really.
    One thing I have noticed about our matchday going fans for a long time now is that technically proficient players have to struggle more than the so called 'grafters' in our squad to gain recognition from our fans.
    Yes this may seem controversial but take for example Nani. Now most of us believe that he is the best winger at the club, certainly the most technical of them all. But the guy has still failed to gain recognition from the crowd. Heck even many posters on this site have said he should be sold. why??
    BECAUSE HE DOESN'T CROSS CONSISTENTLY.
    Now most of our match-day going fans are of British nationality (apart from the tourists of course). Now this age old "Get to the byline and cross" mentality has been deeply engraved in the minds. Hence whenever Nani decides to do some trickery near the box and unfortunately misses the amount of moans and groans from the crowd is really pathetic. What do you expect? He should just blindly cross?? Why does the crowd have a problem when such technically proficient players decide to dribble and take on the players.
    Take Valencia. The guy just does one thing i.e run to the byline and cross (albeit very consistently and effectively). He does this even when we don't have players in the box. Many find Nani frustrating because of his trickery when it fails. I personally find Valencia frustrating since he puts 10-15 crosses in the box even when we don't have strikers in the box or they are marked by defenders. Take the Blackburn game for example. Tony put like 20 crosses even when nobody was in the box or they were marked. It's not like that our strikers are tall giants. Herandez and Rooney are midget-like and Welbeck is still to gain strength to buly defenders which he will after 1-2 seasons. So why just cross blindly. What's the problem in dribbling or showing off which Nani does?
    It is universally accepted that fans of Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich prefer technical ability over work-rate. For example a defender who just boots out the ball from defence like Terry, Carragher will never be appreciated there. Those fans love tricky players like Ronaldo, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Carlos, Robben etc while us Manchester United fans love work-horses like Park, Fletcher, Jones, Valencia,Beckham. These players will never be appreciated on the continent. Heck there was a time when people wanted to sell Ronaldo.
    It was only after that 06-07 season that people finally realized how good he was. There used to be so many articles on 606 to sell him and the matchday going fans used to moan and groan when he used to showboat. Berbatov got the same treatment. Nani gets it now. Veron got it. All technically brilliant players.
    Now this is Ashley Young fella since he tracks back and blindly crosses in the box will never be booed off like Nani or Ronaldo. I am not saying Young is bad. Heck he is England's best winger but the guy has very little technical ability. Ryan Giggs was a different beast altogether since he had technical ability and work-rate. Many said we wouldn't have lost the 09 CL final if we had Fletcher. Now that guy has absolutely zero ability bar running around and tackling. How was he going to stop Xavi, Iniesta?
    Look at out last few signings (bar kagawa ). Owen, Valencia, Jones, Young, Obertan, bebe, Hernandez. How many of them have good technical ability? Hernandez can't even control a simple ball. Jones is being converted to a work-horse like O'shea by playing in mid-field. Valencia even though he is one of the best wingers in the league still uses his left foot for just standing.
    This stress on bulking up,work-rate and tracking back is clearly destroying many technically sound players. i feel Nani has lost his pace a bit. Even though he is one of the fastest players in the league but 5 years ago he was lightening quick but since he was made to bulk up by our staff he has lost his pace a bit if you observe carefully. Rooney has had his dribbling ability completely removed from his. I can't remember the last time he beat a player with skill. He is so slow these days. Defenders like Koscielny have begun to outpace him. Anderson whilst being a number 10 player was made to play in a 2 man midfield and tackle and track back. People wanted Berba to shoot at sight more often.
    The only thing I fear is that Kagawa should never ever be played how Anderson was .I am an Indian and I watch a lot of Asian qualifiers here and since we get football from all the European leagues (every single game) for absolute peanuts unlike in England with Sky etc I have seen Kagawa like 20-25 times so I can clearly say he would be destroyed if he ever played in a 4-4-2.
    This guy is very similar to Nasri i.e a wide left forward who cuts in and also play centrally well. Now if we ever decide to stick him with Carrick in the Anderson/Cleverley role he would not fit it in. He doesn't track back (I can see a lot of you moaning) and can get pushed off it.
    However his strengths include quick,nippy passing, shooting, creativity and giving through balls and coming
    alive in the box.However if we decide to play him in central mifield mark this space he will fail.
    So my only problem is that we as United fans do not lay as much stress on technical ability as much fans
    of Barca, Madrid do. Hence the likes of Fletcher, Park are so adored. We have villified the likes of Nani, Berbatov,
    Ronaldo. This is wrong.
    NOW COMING TO TRANSFERS -
    I have seen a lot of Luka Modric articles over the last few days. he did perform brilliantly against the greatest central midfield
    However there is a great dilemna whether he is very good or not. Many say that he disappears agaimst
    quality opposition and only performs against the likes of Bolton, Wolves. Rubbish!!! However there are posters who cream over him
    as if he is the greatest thing since sliced bread (we all know who they are).
    Now let me tell you my opinion.
    Since here in India we get all Premier league games for absolutely peanuts I have seen a lot of Spurs games. The guy has
    immense technical ability. Yes he disappeared for a long time in-after Jan/Feb. But that was because he was stuck in on the wing.
    We all know what happens when a technically profecient midfileder gets stuck in on the wings *cough cough Scholes England*
    Coming to his cost. I have seen many posters claim that they wouldn't spend more than 15-20m on him. Absolute rubbish.
    MODRIC IS HEADS AND SHOULDERS ABOVE EVERY MIDFIELDER IN OUR SQUAD. However I am really surprised at the 40-45m claims that
    come out. Bollocks.He clearly isn't worth that. That sort of money should only claim the likes of Yaya Toure or Schweinsteiger
    Personally I wouldn't mind spending 26-27m on him as he is good enough to warrant a place in the first XI.
    MODRIC ISN'T CLOSE TO THE LIKES OF XAVI, SCHOLES OR PIRLO. BUT HE IS THE CLOSEST THING THAT GETS TO THEM IN THE PREM.
    But since this guy has technical ability and doesn't track defend a lot heads get turned off. Now these are the same fans that want
    the likes of Tiote or Fellaini or Diarra since they just tackle around without offering any creativity or passing ability.
    Here I end this long article.
    I would like to see your views. Regards
    -Red_Indian
     
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  2. Red_Indian

    Red_Indian New Member

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    How do I share this on twitter?
     
    #2
  3. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Dont know but on the Nani point...

    Hes without question our second best player on ability and also our second best player in the things that matter, goals, either created or scored by him. I have seen people say he had a bad season last season which may be the case....... just a little concerned how Young and Valencia had seasons that were worse or about the same respectively yet Valencia especially gets praised.

    Its not just United fans but generally the british fans, we are baclwards, stupid and out of touch. Old fashioned traditional style players are a thing of the long distant past. They have a place against lesser sides but against the biggest clubs they have very little impact in many cases. Kick and rush football just doesnt cut it against Barcelona or other big clubs.

    As you say abroad fans who have a much better knowledge of the game that anyone in britain look at Nani and see the world class top bracket winger that he is. He would have a free role at any big club in europe bar maybe Barcelona and Madrid as they have players who can do his job, probably 2 of the only players who can do it better tbh and he would be loved.

    Valencia isnt half the player Nani is and Valencia is a very good player indeed. He will never ever ever be world class though, one dimensional players are always limited to being very good at best.
     
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  4. Bloody Wanker

    Bloody Wanker Active Member

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    Here we go, another Nani arselicker.
     
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  5. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Nah just another who prefers ability and technique over kick and rush.

    Until everyone at United sees it that way the clubs on the continent are going to pull away from us. So as much as every United fan loves Valencia, until we are choosing players who are gifted and multi skilled we will lag behind the very best in europe.

    Nanis stats and performances also back up why hes better than everyone of our wingers. scores or creates a goal every 2 out of 3 games, I still ask people to name a single winger in the world with better stats ( assuming Ronaldo and Messi are no longer wingers, which they are not to be honest ).

    I also dont think Fergie limits Nani, doesnt allow him to express his full ability which is a shame but also a big [art of why hes come so far in the last 3 years.

    How I see it is this, Nani is Giggs and Valencia is Beckham. One is clearly better than the other.
     
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  6. HRH Custard VC

    HRH Custard VC National Car Park Attendant

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    Valencia > Nani
     
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  7. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Valencia is much more effective domestically than Nani. Its not just the fans but how football is played here. Thats why many prefer him because in the majority of matches we play in a season he will be the best option. In europe you are right that the style advocated by Barca that you need more flair to compete (I think Chelsea's run will not be something teams can replicate) and Nani is our best in that department, but i still think that he tends just to be wasteful and impatient. His success % when he attempts his tricks remains too low compared to the real top class players playing for Madrid and Barca.
     
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  8. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    How is he more effective? I mean hes limited to one side, cant cut in and offer a goal threat and crosses the ball for the sake of crossing.

    United fans were split like this only a few years ago, Tevez or Berbatov. The talented, skillful player full of class or the hard worker who never stops running.

    I was always a Berbatov fan, many are not. Some still rate Tevez above even though Tevez would never of been top scorer at United, he wasnt good enough.

    Also more and more teams in england are following the continental route. 433/451 style formations, free roaming wingers etc. Over the coming years Nani will become more and more important to us while sadly, and I mean sadly because players like Valencia are so rare these days ( honest, genuine people who know how lucky they are ) will become bit part players, almost relics of a simpler time in football.

    I would love to see Valencia work on his left foot, to the point he can at least have some confidence making a pass with it as it will make him into such a difficult player to handle.
     
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  9. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    From a rivals point of view Valencia is more consistant, he's a threat in nearly every game, Nani can go missing too often. I take the OP's point on the mindset of fans but don't think Nani is a great example.

    When Nani is on form he can be a real danger but when he is not he doesn't give you anything. With Valencia even when he is not on top form you still get good basics and a good work rate.
     
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  10. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Except at creating and scoring goals.

    Nanis crossing is the one that annoys most and its probably due to the fact he takes corners. valencia on many occasions doesnt and tbh hes no better than Nani. Crossing from a dead ball like a corner is different to crossing in open play. Nani in open play during the last 2 seasons created over 120 chances for his team mates ( the figure was taken in March 2012 so its certainly more than that now ). Thats about as consistent a supply as you can get in world football.

    Look, its well known I am a Nani fan, always have been, love players who prove their worth and he certainly did. Cant think of many players who have forced their way into Fergies plans when he was all but gone at one point. Plus he has a knack for destroying Arsenal fans hopes and dreams and that deserves credit. I love Valencia aswell, just Nani is the one I prefer, he annoys me more and excites me more in equal measures.
     
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  11. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Inconsistency is a myth luv, it really is. If you didnt know who I was talking about and I pulled thse stats out for you what would you think...

    61 goals/assists in 94 games over last 24 months
    120+ chances created in the last 24 months
    Pass completion rate of >80%

    Keeping it simple but they are the stats of a player who consistently provides for his team, yes he may be wasteful at times ( this is debateable, what is wasteful, not crossing and holding play up or crossing regardless? ) but all players are.
     
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  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I'm not going to argue as I don't know the player well enough, the stats look good....... He's still a knob though. :wink:
     
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  13. HRH Custard VC

    HRH Custard VC National Car Park Attendant

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    Nani > all Liverpool team :)
     
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  14. Psycho2k

    Psycho2k Active Member

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    Nani is the most technical winger United have, but my problem with him has nothing to do with how often he crosses, my problem is more to do with his decision making. Far too often he picks the wrong option, choosing incredibly difficult 30+ yard shots when there is 2 or 3 much better options around him, or deciding to try and beat a man for a second and third time while the strikers have made great runs in behind for the first time through ball which then leaves them offside if he does decide to play the pass, you often see Rooney going nuts with him when he throws away a good attacking move. Valencia may not be as technical and may be a lot more predictable but he's still very tough to stop, and because everyone knows what he's going to do it makes it a lot easier for forwards to make those little runs at just the right time. Nani will always have a lot more moments of magic throughout a season but in between those moments he often becomes a passenger offering very little, Valencia is much more workman like but you always know what your going to get.

    As for Kagawa, he plays much further forward for Japan than he does for Dortmund. For Japan he often plays very high up the pitch as an inside forward on the left allowing Honda to play as the second strike in the middle, but for Dortmund he plays more as the central man in an attacking midfield 3, often dropping deep to form a 3 man midfield without the ball, with Gotze, Blaszczykowski, Grosskreutz and Perisic used as the wide men.

    And finally, when have we vilified Ronaldo? The guy is hailed as one of the best players to ever play for United!
     
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  15. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton Forum Moderator

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    Thanks for the advice. <ok> What i will say is that I always feel like weeping when I saw the name Park on the team sheet ahead of Nani, so I reckon my perception is just fine. Thankfully, that can no longer happen. For the record though, Valencia was probably our player of the year last season for all round effort and contribution and Nani, well, wasn't. Regardless of stats.
     
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  16. Style

    Style 'where is the love'

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    We need to be better at controlling the game through the midfield that much is clear, thought we were awful at that last year.
     
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