I like James and most of the stuff he posts. I'm also supportive of his strong views on support for our soldiers fighting out in Afghanistan. But the British army is fighting the Taleban and extremism, one of the most serious and sensitive issues of our age. For James to target all Muslims for ridicule is, in my view, not right. It's not a question of being p.c. There are Muslims in the British army, we are fighting alongside Muslims (the Afghan Government), we live amongst Muslims, as QPR fans we support a football team that has at least one Muslim in it...etc That's why I deleted the "joke" and since it was James's second attempt to post this kind of stuff, and it he was clear from the confrontational way he introduced it, that he was being deliberately vexatious, we have asked the guys upstairs for a short ban for James. I'm coming off modding in the next week or so. Thereafter, I'll be supporting Brix and Nutso in adopting this approach to racist comment.
Nor am I tbh. Traore was very religious while at Arsenal getting tattoos removed and all. Don't think Cisse is Muslim despite his name, could be wrong.
Cisse, or his parents, converted to Christianity from Islam. Hopefully the Muslims in the squad aren't too hard line, as the punishment for apostasy is, I think, death in some codes. Good call re James Goldie. He's a WUM and it's patronizing to make age based excuses for him.
He is a wum at times, but he can be a very entertaining one. But at the same time, although I missed his last couple of jokes, it sounds like a line has been crossed twice now. Good on you, Goldie As was said above, now is NOT the time for racist jokes, given the fact that Terry's in the dock for being a racist joke - I hope Jimbo comes back and self moderates himself a bit though.
Rock and a hard place modding internet boards. Forget the pc brigade bollocks, it's a question of moderation. Do we want it or not? Fact is despite GC, this site demands it for the larger football boards. The rules are clear enough and the effect is a fairly vibrant, chummy-type board. Is this a case of nipping stuff in the bud (aka preventing acorns from becoming giant oaks), or simply cooling a twerp hell bent on raising Cain? You decide. As for the joke thread, I'm more into the football and club development stuff so personally don't go there. Whilst I can imagine some of the content, the fact is I've yet to receive complaint from any quarter. Whilst I know the pitfalls in modding (slaps from the kickback possee etc.), our mods have all been big enough to date to make the necessary call when the time comes - and in so doing we earn ourselves a board that is second to none! If it ain't broke...
There are a few issues here. I do think Jim crossed the line. As Goldie pointed out above, his thread was all about provocation. It was entitled "To all you PC fu*kers who haven't the balls to fight....." or something similar. It couldn't be put more plainly I don't think! The fact is, we have Muslim members on our Board (perhaps with an agenda) and its out of order to attack them in that way. Nevertheless, LIUTB makes an honest observation in that when its anything against Muslims in particular, people go barking mad. If it was about almost any other group, not near as much fuss would be made. The uncomfortable truth is that they receive special treatment because people are afraid of offending them. To be honest, I found just as much distasteful rubbish and triumphalism on the Euro 2012 threads but when its the French or the Germans, ach sure its only "banter". Double standards are alive and well it seems. (Goldie, so you're staying on as Mod in an assisting capacity?)
No, Swords, I'll be a regular poster like you, but I was just making the point that I'll be giving my support to our mods from the ground floor just as most members do. And I don't think Muslims should get special treatment. I would have felt the same if Buddists, Hindus, Protestants, Catholics etc... were singled out for ridicule. In my view, it's pernicious and damages the harmony of the board. If members don't agree, no doubt they'll make their views known.
You do make some very good points Swordsy. The line is obviously very broad and not very well defined. The difference between a joke and provocation is, in my view, intent. Items on the joke thread are not backed by any political/moral belief etc and so there's nothing on there that would bother me. James' recent posts have had some bite behind them and it is that conviction (whether it be to provoke or genuine) is where the line should be drawn. In terms of what is offensive, I always think that it's more down to the percieved offense caused than down to the actual words used. I agree that there are different levels of what is percieved allowable and that may be an inequality in itself but, as I say, I think it's the general public's conceived idea of the reaction that deems it acceptable or unacceptable. This is quite interesting in itself because the role of injured party is then partially (and not necessarily correctly) transferred to the shocked on-lookers rather than the real victim. This is probably even more pertinent given that it is the basis for a trial involving one of our players ATM. As I said above, James' recent outbursts have been the only time where I've thought a line was well and truly crossed and even then I wasn't about to turn to the mods to react. They do so prudently and, it seems, with reluctance and one of the things that I love about this board (even if it can frustrate me at times) is the fact that we openly debate about what is allowable and actively discuss these things to at least the point of mutual respect (if not agreement). This probably saves the act of moderation from having to happen (the oft said "self moderation") which in itself is a thankless task because it's more absolute than our continued debate and causes as much unrest as the original decisive post (usually with a freedom of speech rant). An example of where it works would be your Euro host nation posts which were provocative but caused people to back their convictions and, in turn, you allowed yourself to be there for the continued debate. The mods do seem to genuinely listen to us posters and go with a popular concensus (banning Cerny was left until there was an overwhelming majority calling for it for example) but there's always a case of you can't please all the people all of the time. Personally, where absolutely possible, we should try and sort it ourselves (as we undoubtedly have on several occasions before). Rambling a bit but hopefully you can see my point.
No offence Kiwi, I actually enjoy that thread and if some of the jokes are 'distasteful' then tough titty, keep it going and if Swords comes after you we'll hunt him down...
