Really look at Leeds they have a huge fan base they still aren't back in the prem. Same with Leicester who have incredibly rich owners and havent bought their way into the championship either, you have to think what is going to attract players to you when you are in the championship with other championship teams. Before you say history you only have that because there is no one else to compete against.
History on a European stage is less than Nottingham Forest's, you are successful only in Scotland if you were part of the English league for the length Swansea and Cardiff have been I doubt you'd have any more success than they have had.
You doubt? Who made you the Oracle of the footballing world? I could easily argue that we would have won every English League title for the last 40 years and there is no way of you disproving such an assertion, however, it would be as ludicrous as your own point. Besides, when it comes to footballing passion, the Welsh don't even come close to Scotland my friend, therefore we would never have settled for being perrenial Cannon Fodder like Swansea and Cardiff.
How on earth can you make your second point, after dismissing mine for having no proof. You obviously never visited Ninian Park when Cardiff occupied it, the atmosphere would always be fantastic. I think you will struggle to have any proof that your compatriots have a greater footballing passion than that shown of the welsh, or visa versa. And as for my original point, am I not allowed doubt? People have debated since the dawn of time with out being 'Oracles'.
The attendences are the proof. Scotland haas on average the highest football crowds per head of population in Europe. You are making a guess on how successful Celtic or Rangers would have been in English Football, with the (worldwide) fanbase and potential income we could be as successful as any team in England, barring perhaps Man Utd and Liverpool. Money does not guarantee sucess but as Man City and Chelsea have shown in the last few years it certainly helps. Especially if you have no real "History". The Scottish league has not always been the two horse race it is now, it has been competitive in the past and Scottish football has provided English sides with some of their greatest ever players, the 70s and 80s Top English sides had Scots in abundance so why is it you think people like Souness, Dalglish, Law, Bremner, Lorimer, Jordan, Hansen et al would not have been turning out for Scottish sides in the English league if they had the chance or similar wages as they received in England? Maybe you should have done the research that I suggested.
Please do make statistics up because I have just done some research and no you do not have the highest football attendances per headd of population. http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/i...ean-attendance-rankings-scotland-remains-3rd/ I do not doubt that is a very impressive statistic but that in no way means you have more passion than a Welshman because your statistic is higher. In that poll it is almost certain Swansea and Cardiff fans will have been taken in with the English statistics, with them two teams taking most of Welsh football fans from the WPL. "The Scottish league has not always been the two horse race it is now" I have just done some research and since the start of the top division in Scottish football there has only been 17 occasions were an 'Old Firm' team has won it. That is 18/121 meaning 103 titles have been won by an 'Old Firm' team (that is with the benefit of the doubt as Rangers shared the first title with Dumbarton) , in my opinion that is a two horse race. There is every reason for them to play in the English league for English teams, for the same reason players from Italy and Spain play in the Premiership when they have the ability to play for similar wages.
56% of Scotland's 'highest average football crowds per head' come from Celtic and the former Glasgow Rangers(many from England and over from Ireland north and south). Scotland's population is 5.25m as opposed to Wales 3.029m. Wales could also point to many great players of the past that were successful in the English League. Rush,Southall,Ratcliffe,James,Toshack,Hughes,Speed,Giggs etc. Dalgish moved to Liverpool for a chance to win European Cup's etc the bigger wages were a by-product of the move,the rest of your examples moved south because neither of the OF wanted them when they had the chance. Just saying.
So what you are saying then is that Scottish fans are some find of superior supporter ? The arrogance of that is truly breathtaking ! The Scottish leagues is a two horse race now one horse, it's a forgone conclusion that Celtic will win the league for the next 5 years or more. The swans and to a lesser extent Cardiff have gone through some massive problems in the past, and have overcome them and have proved that the small guys can be successful ! You say settling for cannon fodder, I call it overcoming adversity legally and above board. Perhaps if rangers did that they'd still have a club ? I still say that Scottish clubs should not be able to join the league because they have never contributed towards it. If they wanted to join nonetheless, they should have no option to go to Europe through any Scottish cups, and should start where other teams start and that would be at a level of Northern Premier League or lower. In about 7 or 8 seasons they could be competing to join the premier league proper, if that sounds a bit harsh it's my opinion that clubs should not be given a franchise position like MK Dons did and start in the league system. Rangers newco have no history now as they sold that down the river.
After saying this how stupid do you look supporting liverpool, a team built by successful Scottish people. Come to think of it what exactly would liverpool have won without Scottish influence?
You make some good points but also some stupid ones. Rangers FC were founded in 1872. The company that funded the football club was incorporated in 1899, so the club pre-dates the company and will eventually outlive the company. We have OUR history, it's not something that you can take away from us, nor can the SFA/SPL/UEFA/FIFA take it away from us. We never sold it down the river. One man took ownership of the company, raped it, then ****ed off. Thanks. Barrie
Although I think on this point you're beyond educating I'll give it a go. The company, of which the club became part of in 1899, is about to be liquidated. The assets of the company (and the club) are being sold off and even the name of the club will not survive. For this reason the newco will have to find an alternative form of address. Nor do UEFA recognise the newco as the same team that was formed in 1872. I could go on but I think you will believe what you want to regardless of the facts of the situation. Knock yerself oot
Why stupid ? Look at Chester for a club that has been liquidated, they have come back as a new club but must start at the bottom and work up. I am sorry but it means that rangers newco are not the same club so must start at the bottom of the league system
where to start.... leeds get, on average, half the crowds that celtic get. they have none of the worldwide appeal. remove the tv money and their merchandising income is pish. anyone thinking that both celtic and rangers would not be huge in the epl has no real concept of the worldwide attraction these clubs have. we hold our own in the top 20 in europe for revenues most years DESPITE recieving tiny amounts of tv money - we are big - leeds dont come close leicester dont have a huge fanbase leicester's owners may be rich but they dont spend it on the team we would both walk the championship within 2 years - thinking otherwise shows you know little about football
Simon the only thing is if you want to join the league you have to start at the bottom like Chester has had to, why should clubs have to make way for you ? As for walking the league, many teams claim that, very few in actual fact do that.
Read back when I said before that Scots fans are “more passionate” than Welsh fans, I never said they were “Supefans” or anything like that so it’s not arrogance, I explained that the attendances are the proof of my argument. The only arrogance being exhibited here is by people like yourself and the OP who seem to assume that everyone in Scotland is desperate for a chance to play in England. I never said anywhere that I want my team Celtic to join the English league; in fact I’m dead against it and always have been so you are wasting your breath telling me why we should not be allowed entry.
