My point was that if we had 10 English Champions League finalists, surely we should've qualified for the Euros that year?
I can see what the point is but I disagree with it for a simple reason - those players were not as good as the foreign players. You should've qualified that year anyway if you ask me, but the players didn't perform and even though they didn't your team was still vastly over-rated and hyped up to win. Yous claim that Euro 2012 wasn't hyped up, your right it wasn't, until you won your group and then it all came out that you were like an Italian team of the 80s, Charlton thinks England can win it and the BBC release a video titled "FATE" and thats without me divulging into the world of the papers.
England, Scotland, Wales and NI are ****. The only hope for a trophy at international level is to resurrect the home nations. Personally I'm considering becoming German, or maybe Spanish. I'll decide for sure in a weeks time.
That was the whole point of my trip down memory lane, even when we had 71% of European Cup winners over a 6 year period, we still couldn't produce a decent team. I remember one match had 6 of the current all-conquering Liverpool side plus the ex-Liverpool player Keegan, they lost to effing Switzerland.
Not sure about that. Ferdinand was our best defender at that point, our whole midfield was English (Scholes, Hargreaves and Carrick) and Rooney was our second best forward after the WPOTY Ronaldo. Our other Englishman, Wes Brown, played more games than any other player that season. For Chelsea their captain (Terry), their best defender (A. Cole), midfield general (Lampard) and most creative player (J. Cole) were all English. Goalkeeper aside, there is a pretty good all English team between the two finalists.
I am not looking to turn this into an Ireland thread, i am just saying what I see. We are not very good at this level and we compounded that by playing a 4-4-2 which is caveman ****. Our two midfielders Glenn Whelan and Keith Andrews were sent out in 3 games to play against 3 midfielders. Today I hear how great Pirlo is... And he is. I also hear how Gerard is a busted flush. Well England lined up the exact same as us. it was a redundant formation that had Gerard and Parker busting their balls against 3 men. A player of Pirlos quality is going to make hay against that. Rooney filled that gap for the first half hour but after that, he stopped doing that job for some reason. I just dont think the English players are good enough or smart enough and the coaches are not sophisticated enough to make changes. I watched an el classico last year where Madrid were giving Barca a bit of a chasing till Guardiola shifted Dani Alves' starting position 15 yards further up the field. The game changed on that move. 4-4-2 is dead. Gerard didn't become ****e over night. When Trap managed Italy he had Pirlo sitting in a 4-4-2 and guess what? He looked ****e then.
Cyclonic, the problem is paradoxically simple... 1. Continually pick and replace poor quality managers , albeit the job is a poisoned chalice and good managers probably don't want- or more likely don't need-the job. 2. Keep chopping and changing the players, even right up to the start of a major tournament. Even pick players the manager has not seen play eg. Walcott before the World Cup. 3. Don't play to England's traditional strengths of physical aggression, positiveness, and self-belief. Be nervous, fearful, and lacking in confidence. 4. Build a side based on well known Premier League names like Rooney and Gerrard, even though they continually underperform at international level. 5. Forget that football is a team game and believe that one or two top players are good enough to get the job done. 6. Talk tactics without any long-term strategy for our national side. That's the current formula, Cyc, which dooms England to failure. I cannot believe that people or some media believe England performed well in the Group stages. They were mediocre at best, bad at worst, and qualified by a combination of good fortune and mediocre opposition.
Thanks Tam. Seeing that the same scenario keeps cropping up year in year out, then it must be a cultural problem. I suppose a lot of the blame has to be laid squarely at the feet of the people who appoint the national manager. England are only getting what they pay for in the shape of a boss. So who are these people and what qualifies them for their jobs?
Cyc, yes you have to believe that the FA don't appoint the right managers- for whatever reason. Arguably Alf Ramsey was the only successful England Manager(of our World Cup winning team)- and he was appointed more by luck than judgement. You may not know, Cyc, but Ramsey was appointed after Walter Winterbottom retired but Ramsey was not the first choice replacement. In fact the FA offered the job to my home team's right half/captain, Jimmy Adamson ( Burnley FC), who had no experience of management whatsoever! What does that tell you? It's always been plainly obvious that the England manager's face "has to fit" where the FA is concerned. That's why they never gave Brian Clough a chance- you can't have a man like Clough speaking his mind and rocking the foundations of the Establishment! Even more important, England's managers have totally failed to learn the lessons from Clough's methods and success. Look what Cloughie did...... He took a fat player like John Robertson and turned him into a top winger; he bought and used 'players for the job' like Larry Lloyd and Archie Gemill; he knew knew the importance of building a settled side- which breeds confidence and success; he used players in their rightful positions; he built his side around a top 'back four;' and he played a brand of swift, counter-attacking football that was as good as I've ever seen in the English League. Cloughie must be sat on high shaking his head in disbelief at the incompetence of England's set-up. Our international future is very bleak.
Archie Gemmell, now there's a name to remember. My father was a Scot who deserted the colder climate for the warmer Southern Hemisphere. He was a huge Archie fan.
