Black Caviar

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Perhaps there is something to be said for using a jockey with plenty of experience of riding at a given track?
 
PN: Yes, agree there.

Must have found this thread a bit upsetting, have even forgotten to have my morning pint. Must go out for long walk in this beautiful weather. Erm, is there a game of football on tonight? Will have to check.................
<laugh>
 
'This is a very harsh thread with some equally harsh comments. The KS comment above is the fairest IMHO, with equally reasonable remarks from Ron, Oddy, RV, et al.'

Jongleur, that implies that everyone who doesn't share your point of view is being unreasonable. Give over. That's ridiculous.
 
PrincessNewmarket said:
Perhaps there is something to be said for using a jockey with plenty of experience of riding at a given track?
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I did think that was a mistake by their team but to be totally fair I only thought that with hindsight. Luke could have picked up a spare at some point during the week to give him a little bit of experience. Personally, I think he was hard enough on himself after the race that it doesn't need anyone else to have a pop at him. If it had led to her losing then obviously it would be a difference story but thankfully that didn't transpire.
 
Her most impressive performance, visually and probably form wise, was in the Newmarket and that is a straight 6f.

[video=youtube;H4_Qurl05YM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_Qurl05YM[/video]
 
Quelesprit: No, I did not mean it that way at all, sorry if it came out like that. Just thought that the adverse comments on Black Caviar's performance (and everyone is of course entitled to be critical) were harsh, that's all.

Do you know, took another look at the video replay, I honestly don't think the mare even knew she'd been in such a tight race. Although someone on here in the know said whe was apparently really washed-out in her box afterwards? That surpises me.
 
Black Caviar suffered bruising in hindquarters and tore 2 muscles verterinarians say she felt it while running

NOW haters back in your holes <laugh>. But I guess this will be an "excuse" even though it was obvious she wasn't moving right afterwards.
 
&#8220;She&#8217;s had something like this before,&#8221; Moody said.

&#8220;She&#8217;s entering quarantine today, we&#8217;re sending her home, but we&#8217;ll be able to have the injuries treated whilst she&#8217;s in quarantine.&#8221;

<laugh> all will be treated in quarantine where no one can get near her and she will be totally fine by the time she gets home, its ok, "shes had something like this before"

seems legit <laugh>
 
&#8220;She&#8217;s had something like this before,&#8221; Moody said.

Wht do you mean peter? Shes had something like this before? Shes either torn two muscles before or she hasnt....

If you fall for this you are a mug of the highest order.

Thats why they call me Boris Fenster
 
Id actually agree that the excuses could well be sour grapes, because she didn't win as impressively as expected.*

I feel there is enough reasons why she didn't perform to her absolute best like, ground, track, 30000 mile trip, without having to make up injury's.*

If the injury's are genuine then I apologise, but it seems to be the norm to declare an injury whenever a high profile horse underperforms.*

The Canford Cliffs incident was an a joke, there was nothing wrong with that horse whatsoever, just beaten by the best horse of all time, no disgrace in that:biggrin: *
 
Jockey Luke Nolen, on board for 19 of her wins, also believes the Ascot track should not be a problem.

He said: 'She is a seven-time winner on our straight track Flemington. Although she is not trained there it is probably one of her favourite tracks. That will not pose any problems for her.

'It's a testing straight six furlongs but I&#8217;m sure she&#8217;ll handle it fine. I think it will play to her strengths &#8211; she&#8217;ll be strong through the line as long as it doesn&#8217;t get too heavy.'
 
Boris Fenster said:
“She’s had something like this before,” Moody said.

Wht do you mean peter? Shes had something like this before? Shes either torn two muscles before or she hasnt....

If you fall for this you are a mug of the highest order.

Thats why they call me Boris Fenster
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**** off Boris Fenster. Now that is disrespect of the highest order. I have already stated that she pulled up lame. If you know anything at all about horses, replay the race and have a look right after the race. She showed signs of lameness and after a while walked it off (which is quite normal). Even a horse that has done both suspensory ligaments can trot up OK and it can take more than an initial veterinary check to detect.

You clearly have no love of horses other than to benefit from them financially.

I'm disappointed in you Joe. By the way your name isn't Boris Fenster, unless Move To Strike is favourite for the 2000Gns.
 
Ron said:
**** off Boris Fenster. Now that is disrespect of the highest order. I have already stated that she pulled up lame. If you know anything at all about horses, replay the race and have a look right after the race. She showed signs of lameness and after a while walked it off (which is quite normal). Even a horse that has done both suspensory ligaments can trot up OK and it can take more than an initial veterinary check to detect.

You clearly have no love of horses other than to benefit from them financially.

I'm disappointed in you Joe. By the way your name isn't Boris Fenster, unless Move To Strike is favourite for the 2000Gns.
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Well I must not know anything about them because I cant see that she is lame, and apparently Luke Nolen and Peter Moody didnt either because they never said anything about it after the race. I dont work with horses so ive no idea about these things, and I wouldnt attempt to talk to you about it as you obviously have horses and no alot more about them than me.

And you are wrong if you think I dont love horses.

All I know is im not wearing the injury excuses <ok>
 
Quelesprit said:
Why is this disrespectful? Christ, any time people disagree you could say it's disrespectful which is nonsense. No one's been offensive, we've all listened to each others opinion. It's an emotive subject. There's nothing wrong/disrespectful/pointless about it. This has dominated international racing for 3 months.

That's my opinion anyway.
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I disagree with your views Quel but don't think you've been disrespectful at all and have put your points across well. it's an interesting debate and, as you rightly say it's been dominating the sport for 3 months so it's a good one to have - surely that's the point of the forum.
 
Dan Starkey said:
I disagree with your views Quel but don't think you've been disrespectful at all and have put your points across well. it's an interesting debate and, as you rightly say it's been dominating the sport for 3 months so it's a good one to have - surely that's the point of the forum.
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I agree Dan, i am not quite sure why this particular debate is getting so heated as it really is a simple case of two camps and you are either in one or the other and stating your case for your position. It's what debating is about and debating is one of the main reasons for a forum. No one can actually be proven correct as it's about opinion rather than science but in Horse Racing opinions are what it's all about. A trainer enters a race because he takes a view the horse can win it, a punter places a bet because he thinks a particular horse can win that race whist enthusiasts like us debate it for our love of the sport win or lose.

The reason this has created such debate is only due to the hype, if you take that away we would all be saying what a good horse to come over and win the Golden Jubilee and connections would leave very satisfied instead of defensive. The great sadness as i have said before is that she is not hanging around. Frankel after the St James palace stakes last year left rightful questions open and so people were entitled to ask them, and then he answered them, So You Think ran and left questions unanswered but then provided an answer allbeit a different one, Black Caviar has left questions open but sadly they will not get answered, but it's not offensive to ask the questions. No one however can take away from a good performance and an acceptance of a sporting challenge from connections. Very sadly they may now go on a damage limitation exercise and because of the less than expected performance with black Caviar and So you think last year we are unlikely to see these horses come over so readily, which is a shame for us all.
 
I think a lot of it has come down to the age old rivalry between us and the Australians. On many occasions Aussie sports stars have come over telling us what they're going to do to us and it's perceived as arrogant and disrespectful. I don't mind it but it is nice to stick it back to them. Cyclonic might tell us that they've had it the other way in the past (I was on the Lions rugby tour in 2001 and they were sick of being told they would get hammered and duly beat us 2-1) so it can cut both ways. In Black Caviar's case it was more Aussie racing fans (not Cyclonic i have to add) and journalists saying it was aforegone conclusion and it was definitely disrespectful to our sport and even to Royal Ascot. Victories there do not come easy and by God they found that out yesterday.

The best thing about the royal meeting in recent years has been the overseas raiders especially from USA and Australia. I hope they keep coming over as it's a huge compliment to our festivals that they want to take us on. However, I suspect that people may be a little less bullish in the future and I certainly hope we will also learn from it and not do the same when our horses go abroad.
 
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