I know that weather has always played a part. I'm a bit shocked that you don't know why I would say that it's less credible than a circuit layout playing a part in differing performance tho. The teams know the tracks and can make a design judgement on what they can expect. With the weather, they can't predict anything like as accurately, especially with this tyre, so then they are just in the lap of the gods, and that's not what I watch F1 for at least, maybe you do tho and get pleasure from the toss of a coin? I know that track/'circuit layouts have always played a part too. A lot of things have always played a part, but when cars are fast one week and not the next, and the teams clearly have no idea why, else they would be able to use that data to work on the next race, then you just have to admit that the random factors that affect races have become dominant, and (IMHO) that is not a good thing. I've seen little evidence that this season is putting an increased emphasis on the drivers all that much either, in the terms of putting in race winning performances. If that was the case, Jenson winning the first race should show that he is a good driver for the tyres this season and this should have followed on through the rest of the season, which it hasn't. Same for Maldonado, and many many others, yet they are yo-yoing through the field from race to race for reasons that no one really seems to understand. The only real "emphasis" that I might accept has been on drivers who can manage to get consistent results from inconsistent cars, like Lewis and Fernando, but managing to win get over this and achieve some consistent, if unspectacular results is fine by me, but I can see why others might not be impressed at all. Especially when all that the teams do seem to know is that they push on these tyres for a long time (which I know has not always been the case, before you say anything) to an extent that is much greater than ever before, to the point where we have "races" where everyone is in tyre preservation mode at times and that's just seriously dull, especially for those who are watching F1 as the pinicle, and there fore fast and to the limit, of what can be done with motor sport. Don't get me wrong, I like having more than one winner, and more than 1 or 2 cars winning too, and I would not even mind a team being fast for a weekend if they could come out and explain why, but they can't and post race there are just a lot of glum looking, confused losers and happy but just as puzzled winners.
"Don't get me wrong, I like having more than one winner, and more than 1 or 2 cars winning too, and I would not even mind a team being fast for a weekend if they could come out and explain why, but they can't and post race there are just a lot of glum looking, confused losers and happy but just as puzzled winners." Yep, its just a lottery.
Ron Dennis: http://twitter.com/f1zone/statuses/211924251270332417 'It's the same for everybody. I think the tyres are a bit too much of a lottery.'
buy your driver lottery ticket soon -- its only 24 to 1 - - - -the big cash one is 54million to 1, I think.
well if RBR and Ferrari been a bit smarter we would've had the 3 best drivers, who are the 3 leading the WDC, finishing in the first 3 places. Lottery?
Ron knows McLaren still have the measure on car performance with the rest of the grid and more durable tyres would increase that gap, while also sky rocketing Jensons so far, poor season. So I wont trust Uncle Ron's opinion for squat that he has the drivers best interest at heart, like **** he is... Everybody as an agenda with their opinions with these tyres, even me! These tyres have allowed no man to use car advantage and so far it's a dream situation being 3 points behind 1st place after a rough 7 races, the next 7 should be better!
In essence, this is the logic behind the thinking that a driver's performance has become more important, relative to the car. One of the age-old criticisms aimed at F1 has been along the lines of "it is all about the car", or "the driver is a glorified passenger". Well, the current situation surely puts less emphasis on the car. This is one of my biggest reasons for not joining in with criticism of the tyres: they are not perfect, of course (nothing ever is); but they are reducing the importance of a car relative to its driver, which I think should be celebrated.
they still came 4th and 5th, they have a pretty close idea of the tyres, RBR and Ferrari went for a slightly risky tyre strategy that they KNEW would be slightly risky, the cars and drivers we thought would be fast were. It's easy to get the set up wrong, but look how many get it right.
Judging by the current WDC table, I don't think that the standings would be any different if they were using Bridgestones as opposed to Pirelli's. If you get what I'm sayin'.
Haven't posted in this thread yet but now I think something needs to be done. Not necessarily more durable tyres but this unpredictable lottery needs to stop. I don't mind it being close, but positions seem to be a lot more about the tyres than the raw performance of the cars. From being nowhere all season, today's lottery winners Force India would have been very close to pole if Di Resta didn't choke. From having both cars comfortably in Q3 the last races, today's lottery victims Ferrari have both cars out of Q3.
Cosi - I don't agree. Because the tyres only deliver performance when you have got a perfect setup etc. The driver is not the main ingredient - the bloody tyres are!!
I think the last race is pretty much what I wanted from the tyres. Where a 1 stop and 2 strategy can both work and finish together on the track. I don't like it when teams are forced to only multiple stop or only do long slow runs, I like fast drivers catching the endurance ones in the closing laps, mixed strategies!
Above two posts, Forza and Bergy: This sense of 'a lottery' is far more likely when there is so little between the cars. In Valencia's Q2, there was only 0.22 seconds between the top eight drivers! That is not to do with tyre conservation; it is to do with the cars being very closely matched. This is why the emphasis has swung towards a driver to make the difference. Vettel's Pole lap is a good example. For that matter, the various gaps between the drivers within other teams reinforces my point. When there are bigger differences between cars, it is far more likely that team mates will qualify very closely to one another, which also tends to be backed up by race performances. We currently have very very close cars, not least because we have had relatively sustained stability in the regulations which allows less well-financed teams to close the technology gap. This necessarily increases the importance of the driver. From a world record number of World Champion drivers in such closely matched cars, this year's World Driver's Champion is likely to be a very, very worthy winner.
This is surely the whole point. There should always be more than one way to skin a cat –even if some cats don't like it…
Another bit of pieces: Luca di Montezemolo, Jenson Button, Taki Inoue, Vijay Mallya http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-news/f1-fingers-point-at-pirelli-after-odd-qualifying?artid=144923 ------ Luca di Montezemolo pointed his finger at Pirelli on Saturday as he slammed an "odd" qualifying session at Valencia. A surprise and rare visitor in the Ferrari garage, team president Montezemolo was bitterly disappointed after neither F2012 made the Q3 cut. "We were fastest and then everything changed when we put on the soft tyres," he told Italian broadcaster Rai. "We need to take care that this does not become a tire manufacturing championship," Montezemolo warned. Fernando Alonso, however, insisted that the main problem in his native Spain was that the red car was simply "not fast enough". But there were others casting a wary glance in Pirelli's direction, including Jenson Button, who qualified just ninth despite earlier looking to have emerged from his performance slump. "All the way through the pace was very good, and then we put on a new set at the end, came out of the pits and turned into turn one and I had no front grip," said the McLaren driver. "I don't know why that is, but it's something I've definitely got to find out about because I don't think the circuit changed that much between runs." Former grand prix driver Taki Inoue sounded positively unimpressed. "Another different lottery winner can be expected at Valencia. 2012 seems to be Pirelli gambling. This is not F1 any more. Boring!" the Japanese wrote on Twitter. Force India boss Vijay Mallya disagrees completely. "Formula one has become so very competitive, exciting and unpredictable," the Indian billionaire said after qualifying. "Not because of the genius engineers in teams but the Pirelli tyres!" -----
Luca di Montezemolo likes to bang heads together*. He expects to get his way through fear and intimidation; and when that doesn't work, he tries to fix things until he does! *This includes the pipsqueak who used to be his Team Principal; but now does something else. The rumour that Todt oversees the running of the FIA is only vaguely true: yes, he watches what goes on but in my opinion is too weak to run it.
