i'd like to say a couple things about the new LFC game plan and such regarding gerrard but also comment on what i see as an end of an era. All the very best sides in the past ten years have a playmaker.... xavi, pirlo and scholes are all examples of this type of guy who plays deeper (properly for a midfielder in my view) but the common theme here is they are all 32+ in a few years they will all be retired and the next generation don't seem to want to play this way at least in england. So gerrard. With the best will in the world gerrard was never a playmaker as he won't sit deep and pass and move for the team. The trend in football i see is for the flash harry midfielder who just lumbers forward neglecting any thought to keep behind the ball and be available to create. These guys are only interested getting rid of it then running forward in joining the box and scoring.... gerrard, lampard, fabregas and now wilshire are all examples of this and i hear guys like shelvey and henderson talk this way too. The best european teams have play makers and probably will make more of them.... a guy like modric (who BTW is savaged by the english media if he is deep making the play) a guy who will link it all together and the ball moves through him... I'd encourage everyone to watch england v italy with your eyes wide open and compare gerrard to pirlo.... tell me whos the better player, the more effective guy. I'm willing to bet pirlo will be at the heart of everything italy does while gerrard will be a bit player, coming into it when we have the ball higher up the pitch. Its a mind set but if LFC want to play this new style rodgers is on about we cannot look to gerrard to dictate the game... in fact we've no-one capable of this bar lucas who is the only guy i have seen since alonso consistently get to the pitch of the abll, be available for the pass and move the ball on.
You may have a point and this is why Gerrard will either have to adapt or play on the right of the front three.
Doesn't Playmaker = one man team? If Italy have the piss poor game plan of putting everything through Pirlo, then all we need to do is stop him, and they are nothing. I want 10 outfield players looking for the best option open to them, not just giving it to Gerrard, as he is the only one with a brain.
Italy have a lot of talent other than Pirlo but he does pull the strings. Marchisio is more of the drive in the midfield, Pirlo ticks it all along, slips passes in, stretches the play, etc. MITO an oldie but goodie for me is Juan Roman Riquelme, just so smooth with the ball in possession.
noble you are right... stop xavi, stop modric, stop scholes, stop pirlo and their teams don't work as well. but the best sides like barca are not one man teams either, they'd options and can change it up. i don't think italy can change it up and predict parker will be on pirlo all game.
Don't get it? The playmaker needs players infront of him to play the ball to (who will have to make clever movements themselves) - if they are not good enough it doesn't work.
It's no coincidence that our team/midfield has not looked good since Alonso left. One of the most important positions in any side and we really need a player who can play this role. Banega, Martinez - sign them up!
A bit ironic Gerrard just got MotM. No surprise, though. He's being played as he should be in the England setup for the first time since Steve McLaren dropped Lampard and turned results around. This is no reflection on Lampard but together they never worked despite years of successive managers trying to squeeze them into a formation. When Gerrard was injured Lampard was better for England, too.
Newcastle have this sort in Yohan Cabaye and have also brought in Amilfitano who is a traditional no.10 also. Liverpool if wanting to play said system would be wise in buying Marvin Martin or Thiago Alcantraz (sp) .
The major problems with a playmaker is that: 1. They can be nullified by a non-playmaker (a Parker type player) 2 They need to be protected in midfield and this leads to DMs being out of position to protect the back 4 3 Alonso, at his best was never a playmaker. In today's game the deep-lying playmaker has evolved into the 'hole' player who sits further up the pitch and creates just outside of the box. In my opinion Xavi is not a playmaker, he is a very efficient and effective ball shuffler. He does not envisage the play as he keeps passing and moving until the play evolves itself. He describes his play himself in the words "I pass, I move, I pass again". Perhaps the nearest to MITO's definition is Scholes.
This. Remember. The times last season when we looked best and scored goals were when Gerrard, Suarez and Carroll all player. Suarez and Gerrard lik up fantastically.
It's an interesting article, to me Bluffs mention of Juan Roman Riquelme is really relevant, he played in front of the back 4 and would look for that key pass that would unlock the defence. Does that player exist anymore? I don't think so, the defensive midfielder put an end to it as he played in the same part of the pitch and was great at marking, tackling and reading the game in front of him. In English football we adapted with players like Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard who would come from deep with pace looking for a pass or to shoot. In Europe thy adapted with Xavi, Pirlo and Inesta they were diffrent as they moved the ball on quickley and then looked for the return and passed again. All this change was due to that now key player the defensive midfielder.
scholes is a great example of the trade. I think guys you miss the point when you say if the rest of the players don't move or are not good enough is doesn't matter.... thats fairly obvious.. you get ireland don't you? messi could not make ireland good. Playmakers make the teams tick... IMO real midfielders stay with the ball and don't jog off ahead of it having laid it off to anyone they can get while the trot forward and wait form someone to get the ball up there and then sprint the last 10 yards to join late and score.... watch lampard and you'll see him just get rid of it time and again and hope someone else does it while he's trotting slowly forward. Fabregas moved further and further forward as his arsenal career progressed and funnily while the goals came form him the team never won a thing due to lesser players behind him trying to make the play. I steadfastly refuse to believe in defensive midfielders or attacking midfielders.... i think is crap. when you have a guy like say oh essien is he defensive or a power house... same for keane or vieira in thier day or god lucas now. The simply stay with the ball, if thats with the back 4 there they are ready to take it off them and make passes and if they are backing up the play as it advances or even better as we've seen with alonso or lucas making incisive balls forward to cut open defenses. whether its 3 men in midfield, 4, 5, or 4-2-3-1 real midfielders don't just sit back infront of CBs all day. mascherano never did and neither did alonso. Real midfielders do not turn their back on the cbs and jog 30 yards forward to get closer to goal.. thats my opinion. Finally to call xavi a ball shuffler is hilarious, i enjoyed that one. this playing in the hole thing is IMO bull. dennis berkamp, zola, messi, iniesta, suarez... these are players who want and should sit in this gap between defenses and midfield... if you are part of a midfield you need to stay with the ball as it moves up and down the pitch. Watch pirlo, he'll do just this.... watch gerrard, he'll be playing in hodgson's straight jacket but will only get on the ball when it comes his way. Sadly there are very very few new xavis, prilos and scholes types coming up..... I loved the time ferguson destroyed his own team with veron and trying to push scholes forward in a 451.. it didn't last long did it? If rodgers can make whatever formation he uses work with gerrard in it and lucas i think he'll be bulding on lucas' ability to play like a real midfielder and either correcting the ego trip rafa gave gerrard... or extending it by playing him in the front line.
His formation is usually 4-3-3, the 3 midfielders are all expected to play but 1 will usually hold and play deeper, I also think Gerrard will be part of the front 3.
Then the laugh is really on you MITO. Within your own definition of a playmaker you identify a player who defines how attacks will be formulated either via a 'killer ball of a series of passes. They define the play. Xavi, by his own admission does not envisage the play he passes and moves and passes again. That is NOT playmaking. Therefore my term of ball shuffling (whilst somewhat disparaging) is far closer to the truth than your assertion of him being a playmaker!
barca use busquets as a water carrier. deschamps or makelele like i suppose.... but i have to say barca are a very much one off team and style with a three like xavi, iniesta and messi. they all do it like the definition put in the other artcile of this everyone is a playmaker game. IMO xavi makes them tick, if you take xavi (modest) out i think you'll find they won't be the same and fabregas will have to adapt to take on the role if he can and ego doens't drive him to play too far forward. this is my opinion. Put xavi in real madrid and everything would go through him. i'l still say calling it shuffling is hilarious.... its amazing stuff cos its so natural to them. ------------------ re: the rodgers things of 3 with one deep.... my opinion on this is that he is looking for fullbacks to go forward and in this there must be some "extra" cover. compare to say hodgson and you see full backs told to stay back... if you push both full backs on then someones got to cover... one is enough as the ball really can only go to one side or the other and the theory is everyone gets back fast. Lucas is a proper midfielder for me, he is not just defensive. He can get better but will never be a pirlo obviously. gerrard is not unique but combines the type of ball only beckham could play in with the attacking game and explosive bursts that he does best. He's not a playmaker though so in a 4-3-3 if he's stuck wide right he'll not be happy. I'll be interested so see what we do cos as he ages he's got to reinvent his game
I disagree here I think he reads the game in front of him well and has learned to be a great DM and quite a rare one as his passing has become exeptional.
Pirlo better than Gerrard? Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Seems everyone appreciates how ****ing excellent Gerrard is apart from a vocal minority of Liverpool fans.
I don't quite understand your argument here... Is it that Pirlo is better than Gerrard? Or that Gerrard can't play the "playmaker" role? Or as you so delicately put Gerrard will just be another "bit part player"? I do wonder if you're out for the wind up sometimes MITO... Gerrard has played perhaps 5 or 6 different positions in his time, and has done them all well. However, never has he played better than when he is in the middle. In his earlier days, he utilised his strength, pace and vision and proved to be one of the best attacking mids in the game. However, as the years have gone on he has dropped further and further back. If you dispute this, watch some clips of him from each year. It's only recently (these past 2 seasons) that he's dropped past the Centre mid and is now seen more as a playmaker. Pirlo has played the "playmaker" role all his career, he is used to it and considering the fact Italian football is played at a lot slower pace, he is at an automatic advantage. However, Gerrard has proved so far this tournament that he does the playmaker role perfectly, and more. Threading the passes, switching play to the opposite side of the pitch, he's a set piece specialist and has 3 assists to his name. Point out to me, what part of that description proves he isn't doing the "playmaker" role justice? Considering 2 of his 3 assists have come from set pieces. He is at the moment the inspiration in the England team, and has been the most consistent performer over the 3 games. I don't understand your reasoning for the argument.
