The way I see it is this; If Rangers are NOT demoted to the third tier or whatever, it sets a dangerous president. What if say, Hearts and Aberdeen both have similar problems within the next few years ? Or even a really small SPL side ? They could argue that they shouldn't be demoted because Rangers never were. The whole thing is a complete and utter mess, Scottish football is well and truly ****ed. TBH it's no more than the Scots deserve with football fans following either Celtic or Rangers for religious or political reasons rather than following their local club. That's my opinion anyway
it seems straightforward to me, demote them to the third division, only problem is the cost of policing the games that the rangers fans will attend at the smaller clubs in those divisions, but at least those clubs will love the opportunity to beat them, Have to admit, I'm rather scarred by the time hordes of rangers fans came to manchester for the euro final at old trafford. Couldn't happen to a nicer set of lovely gentle people!!!
do you think rangers 2012 (or whatever they end up being called) will apply for membership to one of the northern english leagues?
I don't give a toss about the SPL especially the old firm kick em both out I say and get back to a level playing field rather than the same two winning year in year out.
I have watched the football up there although I will admit not for a good few years now. I used to watch Raith Rovers (because we lived near Kirkcaldy) and Hearts (the biggest team and a ground with atmosphere near us) The SPL will just become slightly more competitive for 2nd place and I am sure as I can be that gate receipts (@ £20.00 a ticket or there about) of £80,000 (I'll be generous and say £100,000) per season is going to be that damaging over three seasons (assuming Rangers do get back to back promotions). English L1 & L2 teams deal with low incomes & low attendances every season, yes it's a struggle but very, very few have gone to the wall. Scottish div 2 & 3 teams frequently get attendances of not much more than 300-600 with little other revenue coming there way and yet they continue to survive and take part in the league every season. Scottish division 1 teams get as many as 1500-2000 per game (not many teams will get that though), the rest of them scrap away in front of perhaps less than 1000 people each week, they all survive too - even when they get relegated. The worst I can see happening is teams in the bottom half of the SPL spending less on transfers and possibly wages for a few years, which will make the SPL worse but that will improve (all be it slightly) again once the "Gers" are back. Where I think more money could be lost is through the TV deals but again this will typically effect the top 6 teams as they only ever tend to show Rangers or Celtic versus each other or versus Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts or Hibs. The other side in the SPL don't really get much of a look in, even on the TV side of life. If (whoever has the TV rights now) pulls the plug (on the basis Rangers are booted out of the SPL), then there may be a problem for those teams mentioned above. What has been mentioned on here, and it was a decent point, is Scottish football losing a CL place but as far as I know it would take a few years for that to happen and the placing is based on past performances over a period of years. They could lose that 2nd place quite easily in the 3 years it would take Rangers to claw their way back to the top. Now, if Celtic were to lose SPL status as well, then I would back you all the way Supers but I think they can live without one of them for a few years
you're missing the point though. nobody will want to watch a league where they already know who the champions will be, especially if the only four matches that are worth watching aren't available to them!! see, i think if celtic weren't there either it would help the league but by only having one of them it ruins it completely. celtic need rangers and rangers need celtic. scottish football would become more competitive without either of them but with only one it makes an even bigger mockery of it! there is no way the tv companies will be keen on showing it now and if i remember correctly, they have already negotiated a smaller deal than their previous one. the 2nd champions league spot will be lost - they've lost it before - everyone knows they only get the two spaces to accomodate the old firm. motherwell will have to get through three rounds to reach the group stage - that isn't going to happen. for the league to be competitive they need neither old firm club but to stay alive they need both of them. it'll end up like the league of wales or ireland (which wouldn't be a bad thing for fans of all the other clubs) but they'll be skint and wouldn't be able to attract anywhere near the kind of players they currently do, which are hardly awe-inspiring as it stands anyway!
Celtic need Rangers and Rangers need Celtic That is the first thing we can agree on but the others, in my opinion, could live without them if they had to. The TV companies need both of them for their own ends but again the other clubs could survive without the TV money if they had to. They did before the TV rights even existed. If anything, the relatively small income generated by the TV companies has killed the SPL. Before they came along and showed one of the two big teams every other week, lining those pockets and neglecting everyone else, other teams were up the backsides of Celtic and Rangers in the title chase. If the TV companies lose interest then that can only become a good thing in the longer term as financial gap is reduced again. I have given you lots of reasons why I believe it would not be catastrophic for the other teams in the SPL but I am yet to see one reason why you think it will be, other than you have watched SPL football. (Didn't mean to come over as rude with that sentence). Yes, the league would be an even bigger joke than it currently is but that doesn't mean it will be the end of the league or any of the teams in it either, it will become something like they have in Ireland perhaps but the reality is they are not far away from that level anyway. Missing the point? - Let's be honest, no one is really interested in the SPL outside of "Old Firm" anyway, hence such low attendances at all the other grounds. All this would do is halve the interest in the "Old Firm"
my point thai, is that if only celtic are in the league, it will suffer. i agree if neither were in it it would become more competitive, though as i say above, the league would become like the league of wales, but i really think you're underestimating how big rangers are. they are, along with celtic, probably about 50 times bigger than the third biggest club in scotland. if man utd dropped out of the premier league the league could cope because there are other massive clubs who could step into the breach but imagine a league without man utd, arsenal, liverpool, tottenham, chelsea and liverpool and tell me that the league they leave behind wouldn't be less marketable and carry fewer fans. it might make it more competitive but the standard would drop immeasurably and fans who are used to seeing the star names and the big clubs will lose a percentage of their fans. if rangers drop to the third tier, as i've indicated they should, i give it one season before at least one other scottish premier league club goes bust. its not just me suggesting this - i've heard plenty of people in positions of authority in scotland suggest likewise.
Let's agree to disagree then, as I do not see it happening. One the other side of the coin though are the likes of East Stirling, Berwick Rangers, Albion Rovers etc that would get a massive boost to their pot, all be it for one season. So while the SPL may struggle for a few years, and I will not deny they will struggle (just wont go under), the teams lower down in the pecking order will generate buckets of cash in comparison to what they currently get, and that has to be good for the domestic game in general. Just a shame it would only be for one or two seasons though. East Stirling for example live on crowds of about 150 each week! 2000 visiting fans would be fantastic news for them
agree with that though i'm glad i won't be involved in the policing! i still think rangers will apply for english lower divisional status. that would really throw a spanner in celtic's works!
If Rangers did apply to join south of the border, and it got accepted, do you suppose Celtic would commit financial suicide to achieve the same end result? I think they would if they thought it would guarantee football in the English leagues under the illusion they can compete at the highest level
the celtic fans are lauding it over the rangers fans right now. would certainly be interesting to see how they'd react if rangers came out of this in the english divisions. its not implausible either!
Would be interesting to see what would happen if Rangers Newco tried to join an English league. Obviously there is prescedent with Berwick/Cardiff/Swansea etc but I will be amazed if they choose to go down this route and if the English leagues accepted them. If they joined one of the Northern Leagues they would have to climb for many years to get to the Championship and I don't think that so many years without TV income would make even a club with a massive following like Rangers able to compete with English Champoinship sides. It would be a huge gamble - if they go the the bottom in Scotland they will be at the top and competitive within five years. they may never make it in England. I suspect that self-interest will make the SPL clubs vote to admit new Rangers. Morally wrong but self-interest almost always wins out.
Scotland want independence from the rest of the UK,if they get it FIFA would never allow a 'foreign' club to operate the English Football League.
