For the sake of argument, let's say the moronic fans from the Ukraine and Poland behave like they usually behave (I've seen this personally!) during the upcoming Euros, and start hooting like monkies when England's black players hit the pitch. What do you think the players and Hodgson should do? I read that England are preparing to head off toward Poland, so I think it's worth asking the question.
It's a tough one. I agree with Balotelli that no player should take that abuse from the fans, but also agree with Ian Wright that leaving the pitch will mean the fans will have won. You also cannot just remove the minority of fans because I'm led to believe it is more of a majority. I honestly think the players should just get on with their jobs the best they can, maybe using it to spur them on to perform better, therefore sticking it to their abusers. It really is a sorry state of affairs.
They should identify the culprit and go give them a bloody good handshake! Keep playing and let the authorities deal with it. If it does happen maybe the powers that be will look into the processes behind selecting a host city and revise the Qatar decision.
If players intend to walk off, it would be better done through the ref - protesting to him, and asking him to take action about the abuse. The ref stopping the game while stadium staff deal with the issue sends a better message than players spontaneously walking off. Is racism an issue in Qatar? I know their rulers have a bad reputation for human rights issues, but that's a different matter (and one that isn't likely to surface during matches).
Not that I am aware of, they are anti-homosexual with stringent alcohol laws. My point was more about the lack of research/analysis that seems to go into these decisions. The success of the Qatari bid was ridiculous, there is no other reason for it than vote buying.
I brought up the topic, but I don't really have an answer. The most moral thing to do would be for the team to walk of the pitch and refuse to play. But then a whole stadium of fans suffers for the antics of a few. Same thing would be true if the authorities cleared the stadium before the game continued. Maybe if Poland and the Ukraine forfeited their games when their fans acted up, that might send a message. There's really no easy answer. It's insane that UEFA even offered to let these countries host the event, considering the ugliness that goes on there in terms of hooliganism and racial abuse. - both Russia and Qatar were awarded their World Cups because third world FIFA reps can be bought rather cheaply. I've been to Qatar. It's a pile of sand and rock. There's not enough naturally-occurring vegetation there to feed a small herd of skinny goats.
DR, to an extent there is racism in every country in the world. I wouldn't consider England or Wales as racist but you stay out long enough on a Friday night and you will stumble across some. Italy in particular has long been associated with the racist tag yet have hosted major tournaments in the past. There should be background checks on people buying tickets (criminal records, history of racism etc) to weed out the main offenders
I think they should walk. I wouldn't stay there and be ridiculed if I were in their shoes, and it would probably spur UEFA/FIFA into actually giving things like this some thought. If they carried on playing I have no faith that any actions taken would prevent it in any other games - it's 2012, it shouldn't be an issue in this day and age! - but a mass-walk-out would stir things.
Correct on both counts Captain. Your first point is supported by the Authorities - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18338838 There is a real judgement issue at stake. One alternative scenario is that the 'hatred' is induced when a team is losing in the hope that the game is abandoned or stopped for a time to unsettle the opposition. Goodness could a team themselves stoop to some 'pseudo tactics' or simulation as it's called ??
I read this morning that players risk being yellow carded if they walk off independently. UEFA are clearly wanting it in the hands of the refs, but what we don't know is what instructions they are giving to the officials. I hope refs are being encouraged to take the issue seriously and not turn a blind eye.
Bandito, I agree that the Ukraine and Poland are far from the only countries guilty. Spain and Italy have seen plenty in recent years. Germany, where I live, is terrible; I've heard it and seen it. I come from the US where racism is an instutution, in some states. But if England and the other countries don't walk of the pitch en masse as a unit in solidarity with their own and their opponent's non-white players, aren't they simply acquiescing to racism. If England ignores or tolerates monkey chants and banana's thrown on the pitch, doesn't that tell the world that it's OK to ignore and tolerate racism? England walking off the pitch would not cure racism, but it would certainly send a clear message to the world, as Bidley suggested.
On reflection, this would probably be a more rational way of handling it, so long as the refs are given explicit instruction to stop the game at the first sign of any racism from the fans. If the refs don't stop the game then the players should definitely walk. I get the feeling that so much has been made of this that there will probably be very little occurrences of note and it'll all be a big hoo-hah about nothing. Hopefully.
I've got a feeling that the instruction to stop the game if there is racist abuse will prove to be misguided. In some situations it might be preferable to one of the teams that the game be stopped, the break might allow them to break the oppositions momentum. At what point is the game stopped, say if the abuse begins halfway through a period of sustained possession- do the players stop immediately or play on until the next break in play- what if that break is a goal?
You are right silky, but at which point does a game of football become less important than being racially abused?
I'm of the opinion that they should keep playing or abandon the game completely... better still- go back a couple years and make the decision properly with "is racist abuse still common in the stadiums" one of the questions raised. Although I recognise that no player should be subject to racist abuse this is the position that the players have been left in. When the game is stopped how is it that these fans will be cleared? With force I presume; unless they use the ulta-sonic sound wave thingy which would be unfair on the whole stadium. What if the abuse begins before the match has started? It's such a lazy, off-the-cuff solution to an issue that wouldn't have been considered a problem unless it had been raised in the documentary and gained some traction in the UK media. South Africa, Ukraine & Poland and soon Qatar- it's one things to give a city the tournament to stimulate growth and development, however there needs to be some consideration given to what it is that will be grown, what will be further developed. In these cases I don't think that has been given. Blatter is block building to secure his position & Qatari money is very persuasive.
I suspect, and sincerely hope, that you are correct Bidley. Anyway, this should sort the men from the boys - http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iz2f3gVgh9dUwWaqjnyOXhUnAqrQ?docId=CNG.a7e454e629754cec0b725dd3ec54f6c0.31 Back to the serious point, I take, and agree with what you say about facing up to racism. However, in the context of these particular football matches the implications of 'walking' are immense and the risks have to be assessed dispationately. I would repeat what I said in my earlier post: QUOTE]"There is a real judgement issue at stake. One alternative scenario is that the 'hatred' is induced when a team is losing in the hope that the game is abandoned or stopped for a time to unsettle the opposition. Goodness could a team themselves stoop to some 'pseudo tactics' or simulation as it's called ?? "[/QUOTE]
If racist behaviour is prevalent in Polish and Ukranian grounds, then it would have been an issue whether our media had highlighted it or not - black players and fans would have been just as likely to be on the receiving end, regardless of whether it's a surprise to us at home. The problem hasn't been created by the people shining a light on it. At least this has given players, and officials the opportunity to think about the best way to respond and make a considered response (rather than a hasty, ill-considered one) if anything happens. The lazy solution is to blame the media for telling us about the problem, rather than the racists who have been allowed to go unchecked in these countries. Where I do agree with you entirely is the need for FIFA and UEFA to think more widely about the requirements when choosing host nations. My biggest worry is that UEFA are going to be more concerned with saving face - putting players off from protesting by threatening them with yellow cards (in the public record); asking refs to turn a blind eye to abuse from the terraces (pure speculation on my part) - than with a progressive response that helps to bring about a long-term change in what is considered acceptable from fans in Poland and Ukraine.
Here is a question for you all to solve Spain are beating Ukraine 5-0 and it's half time. Ukraine fans proceed to throw bananas as the Spanish players during the second half. Players walk off, game is abandoned. How is that fair? What's to stop the ans throwing bananas or making vile chants every time their team is losing in order to have the match stopped?
What I wrote may be unclear - I'd meant this only became an issue to FIFA & UEFA because of our media, had Panorama not run the documentary they wouldn't have come out with this tactic for dealing with racist fans. I don't believe that FIFA & UEFA gave it much consideration at all. I think the light should now turn to the internal processes of the governing body. It can't be any more obvious that it is corrupt- surely at this point we must try to change it- the whole world is invested in football and we project our ideals through it.
