sol Campbell to hand back his caps if he finds out rio was left out over terry. I can't believe everyone is on their high horse over the Ukrainians yet backing terry at the same time it is the funniest most disturbing and saddest set of double standards i've seen
To be honest. I don't feel ashamed of the situation at all. Hodgson clearly felt that due to the issues caused by racism that there would be a massive chemistry issue in the dressing room if Terry and Ferdinand both played. The only issue here is the fact that he chose a proven racist in Terry over Ferdinand. However the manager has quite rightly gone on who he feels can do a better job. And in terms of Footballing ability both of these center-backs are pretty much on par which each other in my eyes. Some consider Terry the better defender, others Ferdinand. I just feel that Terry really should not be playing as I personally consider him a bad influence. However the manager clearly thinks Terry has more on offer to him than Ferdinand (he can not choose both), therefore I am not really concerned. In addition to this Rio kind of has a history of not taking racist remarks on the chin; and bringing in someone like this in to a hostile place such as the Ukraine may cause more damage to England than what it is worth. Remember the manager and Gerrard (the captain) have both stated they are making this competition about the football, and will try to ignore or stay away from the "racist" debates; this is something Rio always seems to bring with him (just look at the title of the thread). I think I have proven my point. But if it was up to me I'd take Rio on his footballing ability also I think he gets on with the majority of the England squad a bit better; But then I never really rated Terry so I am Biased.
Although there is clear video footage, isn't it innocent until proven guilty...? Terry is more his style, Roy likes his defenders to clear their lines rather than play football so what use would a ball playing defender like Rio be to him? For example, whilst at Liverpool, he choose Carragher and Skrtel over a fighting fit Agger...
The greatest thing that could happen in the Euros is someone like Balotelli takes Terry out........for good.
Can we make a double punch knockout...? [video=youtube;nzZCwJ7Mv0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nzZCwJ7Mv0I[/video]
^^^ (at least some of it) When the English team has some one accused of AND prosecuted for racism in the team, how can we get all self righteous and condemn the Ukranains and poles for being racist and living in the dark ages? We have undermined our own position on this issue and if the Ukanians/Poles throw the whole thing back at us and say F off and put your house in order first before you lecture us, they will have a point. Hodgson may or may not have been put in a difficult position because of the court case, but in my opinion he made the wrong choice. Looking at the bigger picture, dumping Ferdinand in favour of Terry has undermined his and England's position even before the start of the tournament.
Not me. The last person I'd like to see score a goal. I am sorry to say this but if I had to choose between Terry scoring a goal or England not scoring at all then I'd prefer the latter.
Dont get me wrong I hate Terry and if & when he is prosecuted hope the FA maintain equality of punishment with others (above and beyond the criminal punishment handed out by the court.) I have also stated that neither of them should have been near the squad for various reasons other than their personal relationship problems . BUt unless you know something I dont, Who has been prosecuted of Racism that is currently in the England squad? And how does that bear any relationship to the responsiblilty of ensuring the safety and wellbeing of guests (of any nationality, colour or religion) in your country (Poland & Ukraine) and as an organiser who put forward the venues as suitable candidates (UEFA)??? Both will make millions from the tournament. Interestingly in Platini's press conference today he said albeit worringly flustered; clubs (I assume he would extend that to countries since we are at an international tournament) could NOT be held responsible for racist abuse handed out by their fans! I'll see if I can find the direct quote; he did talk a lot of incoherent rubbish while remiding everyone how great he was in his day......I can absolutely guarantee that would not have been the approach to England if the same issues arose during a tournament held there. Also, where is the line: If they cant be held accountable for Racism what about hooliganism or violence in general?
If the issue had been dealt with at the time then it would have all been sorted and any possible punishment would have been served by now. The Saurez / Evra case should have been done quicker too. Just a slight twist but, if the accused is proved to be innocent, shouldn't the accuser face possibly punishment if they are seen to be 'causing trouble'...? just a thought
Everybody knows it was because of the court case. Rio said he'd be professional but clearly it would've been a poisonous dressing room atmosphere. So once it came down to Rio or Terry then it does become footballing reasons. Terry's a Hodgson-type player and Rio has far too many chiropractic issues to rely on his fitness, no matter how many games he played in a row. With Terry being a court case the FA have to be careful not to prejudice it. The irony is the more fuss Rio makes the more Terry's lawyers can point towards a media campaign against Terry affecting his right to a fair trial. And the FA would obviously rather bury it than have it overshadowing the tournament every time JT and Rio played together. I heard a member of the sports media as a guest on TalkSport recently refer to Platini as a "surrender monkey" and not a word was said. It makes me think if Suarez had called Evra a frog that would've been considered very British. Anyway, this whole thing has overshadowed the fact that once again we're going into a tournament with too many injuries from our demanding season. I doubt the FA want to deal with that, either.
I am not sure you are being deliberately ignorant. Terry is being prosecuted for racial abuse? We will know the verdict at the end of the trial?
You used "prosecuted" past tense. Incorrect. He's been charged. I really hope you know the difference. Edit: Unless you meant he is going to be prosecuted on the charge of blah blah... Then of course you would be correct. He still gets to be innocent until proven guilty..it's a small thing that protects the lives & livelihoods of the UK's citizens.
Big deal. He has been charged. He is being prosecuted. Well done Frank for showing me the difference Edit: of course I meant " being" knowing full well that his case has been postponed. And of course I know that he must be presumed innocent until he is proven guilty. FFS where have I said that he was guilty? But having someone with a charge of racial abuse in the team is bad enough don't you think?
As someone quoted a criminal conviction rate of 45%, even taking into account screw ups by police et al it would suggest that at least one third of the people being "prosecuted" are in fact innocent & that's me being intentionally negative; I could have described it as over half... So to say they lose their jobs "just in case they're guilty" is a little worrying. Surely much easier to find many many more viable reasons for Terry not to be selected. And you still did not explain why we as country sending "guests" & their money to the host countries can't question the safety of every one of our citizens. People occasionally get murdered in the UK. Does this mean we can't condemn Rwanda or Serbia for genocide? Woman get abused in the UK. Do we not get to highlight the abuse of women in Afghanistan. There is individual Homophobic abuse in the UK does this mean we should not use our influence to stop African (or indeed the Ukraine) countries from adopting laws that make homosexuality illegal?
Frank I must respectfully but firmly tell you that you have completely got the wrong end of the stick. I am disgusted by what is happening in the Ukraine and Poland and their abuse of minorities. I totally support anything we do to highlight that and support anything the authorities could do to bring these people to order. All I am saying is that Hodgson and the FA IMO have undermined this stand by having amongst them (representing this country) someone charged with racial abuse. Terry is not just some fan or man in the street. He is a player who represents England even though he is no longer captain.
Got to agree Carl,Why the FA ever kissed his arse after his one man mutiny at the last World Cup is a joke,they should have banned him for good from playing for his country then this situation wouldn't have arisen.
Fair enough Carl. but there is a tight line to walk here: As usual the FA is allowing trial by media. The issues need separated. If the FA had it in their conditions of involvement that no player or coach could represent England while charged with a criminal offence the problem would be solved. No arguments no debate over innocence or guilt. Even if they had suspended Terry when stripping him of the Captaincy they may just have been able to point to professions such as teaching as an example. The reason they chickened out with Terry & not with Suarez? Suarez has a long career ahead of him to jeopardise. Terry would have had nothing to lose taking the FA to court for inference of guilt; interference with a fair criminal trial. Damage to reputation (I know I choked saying that one too) etc. So when they didn't they tied Hodgesons hands. If Roy had dropped Terry for "footballing reasons" the media would now be discussing that Roy had jeopardised a criminal trial because the FA hadn't said he couldn't play. They'd be shouting innocent until proven guilty. So, I agree with you that the FA has screwed this up royally. But without that declaration above they can not drop/not select Terry now. Until they put something like that into their contracts they have to stick with "innocent until proven guilty" which unfortunately means an assumption that the only person who would officially be effecting team Morale would be Ferdinand as he has declared it an issue. Terry officially says there is no issue because he's innocent. So Roy is "officially" correct to drop Rio for "footballing issues" because politically it is. It's despicable and unsavoury but I honestly don't think it as an individual case undermines our stance on racism for one simple reason. Terry has been charged. And as you say he is being prosecuted. We can actually hold our heads up as an example on both topics. Our country is attempting to drive out racism but we are also upholding justice & democracy. Both things these two host countries could learn from.
