I can remember my grandfather sitting me on his knee and telling me war stories when I was a kid. "There we were", he would say,"two against two thousand!" "Blimey, grandad", I'd respond,"what happended?" "We won, son", he'd sigh,"but they were the toughest two we ever fought!"
Whoever planned and set up that concert needs beheading at the tower ... absolute rubbish and hardly a once in a lifetime event ... bit like the London Olympics in the the wordsof Al Murray... London Olympics... its a little bit ****
The sad thing is mate, they will never know how many died. Possibly could of been as many as 9000 (they just got as many on the ship as possible that day and stopped counting). It always makes me laugh when we have all the programmes about the Titanic but but i've only ever seen 1 programme about the Lancastria which was far far worse.
Just to clear on one thing Paris is not France before the world on here things that the entire French population act like Parisans
Lots of shameful things happen in war, compare what happened in the trenches and that puts things into perspective. By the same token why are we in Afghanistan? Hundreds of dead and injured Brits for a country that will never appreciate our sacrifice. In war the politicians always bury their mistakes...
Brilliant thread, English Civil War revisited with Churchill thrown in. In principle republican but think the monarchy is relatively benign, probably just about pays for itself and at least gives us something distinctively British. I find the deference cringeworthy, but actually feel sorry for the Royal family in an odd sort of way. No way would I trade places with them. It's important to keep the institution separate from the individuals. I'm casually against the institution, but it won't get me manning the barricades and it was good to see so many people enjoying themselves last night. The scenes at Diana's funeral and after on the other hand were a shameful indictment of national character and psyche. Churchill was a wartime leader, full stop. A lot of his politics were odious (attitude to India for example, the General Strike) but in the wartime circumstances he had to take daily decisions which cost lives and concealed truth. That's war, and I'm glad someone was there to do it, though he doubtless made mistakes. The British people saw him for what he was - right for the war - and decisively kicked him out as soon as it finished. Now Cromwell - true republican and English hero or genocidal maniac (Irish views welcome).......?
Really interesting thread lads . Getting busy at work so can't post but will read when I can. Makes me proud some of the debates we have on here
I think that is a well-balanced response that could be said of many great men. Anyone who thinks that any man could lead a country through a situation like WW2 without making some quite terrible mistakes along the way is mistaken themselves in my book.
Back to all things Jubilee and Royal family... Interesting seeing the masses converging on the Palace. It's the sort of thing that would make most Middle Eastern dictators crap themselved and call out the Army, but in Britain it's a great spectacle.
Feel the need to join in this. I refused to stop my conversation to join in with singing the national anthem in my local on Kate and Wills wedding day. A bunch of people still don't talk to me. I am proud to be British.. but not because of the royal family. There are a hundred reasons before them. The NHS for starters. But this weekend made a lot of people happy - and that's a good thing. I was born in America and here's the fact that bothers me. The President of the USA is the son of an African goat herder. Our head is a result of biological chance (and it's not British.) Where is the aspiration here? So have your Jubilee. Enjoy. But I'm NOT interested.
Very powerful post there Pete. A lot of rational thought in there. You serious your mates won't talk to you because of that? They need to chill.
Don't start about Cromwell - 11 years of being a psychopath in charge of an army. I also don't buy the whole heritage and culture arguement associated with the monarchy. It's meant to be a blood line but is so diluted by hard fought claims to the throne (from distant relatives) over the course of history (despite the inbreeding) that there shouldn't, by rights, be any justifiable monarch anyway. In terms of culture, how many old buildings are pulled down all the time to make way for affordable housing without anyone raising an eyebrow? Look at the old photos from the 50s of street scenes and compare them to the shells of the buildings now occupied by thrift or phone shops - this is post war and we have shown no real interest in maintaining any of it. Go to any European city and you'll see historic quarters and continuity in architectural themes across the whole and we go on about one person and her family that the vast majority will now forget about until the next "big event" and we count that as heritage? I count it as false and am actually embarrased by the increase in merchandise compared to the Golden Jubilee (that seem to escape with nothing more than a couple of documentaries). Once again it has been media driven and the sheep have been herded in the right direction (apologies to those who supported the Queen prior to 2002). Oh, and the Americans could walk round B&Q and marvel at the antique shed section because anything older that 10 minutes of age counts as historic to them. Rant over.
Swords, Ex mates now sadly. Living in the country has it;s dwnmside. Thankhs for usimg the word rationality. Let me tell, you, people lost in a storm of bunting and misunderstood patrioyism ratiomality get's you nowhere. Depressing.
Sure am Mum's funeral tomorrow. Thik of mr giving th eulogy about 10 oast 12. Sorry. I'll be back when sober, It is a subject that fascinates me. Bed time
