Proof please. All allegations were unproven, Billy Bremner actually won damages for such ridiculous accusations. If we were fixing games we were pretty rubbish at it, check how many times we were runners up and had terrible decisions against us. Leeds United's main problem in the late 60's early 70's was they challenged and beat the darlings of the press, Man U, the media hated this and decided to use the dirty Leeds tag. Leeds United played superb football the majority of the time but could mix it when required. Watch and learn.... [video=youtube;l9sr0PaCYiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9sr0PaCYiI&feature=related[/video]
No, I got no proof. If there was proof possibly some action would have been taken, but then with our FA, probably not.
Not wanting to court controversy, I must speak as I find on this one. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. Revie's Leeds were OUR Leeds - one of the best and most entertaining units to grace the pitches of England. I loved watching that team at work. They had everything you could ask for: talent, balance, flare, game plan, guile. Sure there was gamesmanship (taking advantage of the rules) but you need the full set to carve your niche - and for me, that team (and Chelsea's) were the highlights of that particularly enchanting era. And the highlight of highlights for me was that game against Southampton (if memory serves...). The MoTD. Leeds came out the epitome of confidence - numbered tabs on their sock ties and a swagger the likes of which I've not seen before or since. Played their opponents clean off the park, often stringing multiple passes together for long periods. Absolute masters of the art. For all this, full credit to Don Revie. It's the lifetime achievement he should be remembered for. Such a shame it was overshadowed by the England / UAE farce.
I just remember Leeds of that era as being hated mainly because they were better than everyone else and hugely professional. They had some very talented payers many of them with very nasty streak, Giles (a sublime player), Bremner, Hunter and Jack Charlton in particular. Revie built an 'us against the world ' mentality that justified winning at all costs. There was no way he could replicate that at national level. If it wasn't for his ego I'd half believe Clough went there to deliberately ruin the club. The Damned Utd film is great,another superb performance by Michael Sheen, but I have no idea if it even approximates reality.
Having made my clear my adoration of the real Leeds United above, my conclusions of the Revie Clough 'rivalry' is that Cloughie wins hands down. Whilst Don put a side together that ably rode the waves for many a year, Cloughie did it twice. Okay, so his reign at Derby was cut short but there's no doubt in my mind that his Derby team had all the makings of an enduringly successful outfit. Furthermore, Clough was lightyear's ahead of his time - and our's. So sure was he that he was right about pretty much everything even vaguely related to football (and he was!), he became synonimous with arrogance before his time. They were calling him 'old big 'ead' by the time he was 40! His entertaining verbosity knew no bounds (give thanks!) and he was often favourably compared to that other icon of the time, the 'Louisville Lip' (Ali). Both set their stalls out and invited all comers to try to knock them off their media pedestals - and both brushed all such efforts aside with the utmost aplomb. Revie on the other hand was comparatively conventional (and as has been pointed out, 'gentlemanly') when interviewed. Unlike Brian Clough, infinitely forgettable were it not for the abiding memories of what has become the rather ironic title 'massive Leeds'.
On a more parochial note, I think our 5-2 win at the Baseball Ground in 74-75 was the beginning of real belief in the Rs team. I think Derby were champions, and Ron Abbott scored! I remember scarcely believing it when that result came through.
Superb thread when placed against the Sky money football of today. When Revie took over at Leeds they were a small "provincial" club who were meant to stay in the lower divisions and achieve nothing. Yet it became the era where Leeds and Liverpool began to build great clubs under the leadership of excellent managers. The London/National media were still trumpeting Man Utd as England's team, and when the Busby team won the League/Euro Cup they were delirious and proclaimed this team with their exceptional talent would rule fir the next decade. Of course, that didn't happen as Revie's Leeds passed them by. This resulted in the Man Utd loving press branding them "Dirty Leeds" as they refused to acknowledge that Revie's Leeds were simply superior and played superb football. Clough looked up to Revie and Leeds, and he wanted to be the next Revie. It was only after he left Leeds that he realised all he needed to be was the first Brian Clough, and that was when he fulfilled his potential and became one of the all time greats. The thing about Revie's Leeds was they could play and they could look after themselves. If a team wanted to challenge them with skill, or simply intimidate and kick, Leeds were able to hold their own either way. As for hard men, every team had a few in that era, it was the done thing. For me Revie and Clough were sensational managers, ahead of their time. Their teams could play, but they had one thing in common - all the players would run through brick walls for their manager and each other.
I'm glad one or two others have pointed out how good that Leeds side were, they were despised because in the 60s they played the negative way when ManU & ManC were more cavalier and Chelsea and Everton ended the decade playing that style as well. But the Leeds of the early 70s were far and away the team to beat, I think they went 30 odd games unbeaten from the start of one of those seasons and their European efforts were always worth watching. Revie was the absolute opposite to Clough in personality and ethos but his team would run through brick walls for him and that speaks volumes...
Very interesting thread to read, being a Leeds fan who was born after the death of the Don, but still one who was shown his team's brilliance from an early age on the old 'BBC Leeds United's Glory Years' VHS tape which explained "Leeds United's footballing ABC: Arrogance, Belligerence, Confidence". Looking at the Yorkshire TV interview, the fatal flaw for me comes from Clough. His emotional style was his downfall at Leeds; he allowed his envy and suppressed anger to take him over by refusing to hold an introductory meeting with the players. Even the deferential, dour Revie says that he gladly held a cocktail party on his opening day as Leeds manager, and put across his mission statement and vision for the club to everyone from boardroom to players to tea ladies. And yet the smarmy, outspoken Clough failed to do so and instead held a training session? Maybe he was trying too hard to be like Don, but for me that stinks of 'I'm going to put you through the paces and you will respect me and my superiority, you cheating bastard underlings'. Especially if you believe the 'throw away your medals' story. And in the greater scheme of things, that was also the downfall of the truly great Leeds United. Cloughie won.
Great thread I remember the Leeds team of the late sixties and seventies and was a big fan, 2nd to QPR or coarse, and do not remember them as a dirty side simply able to look after themselves and should their opponents do the dirt they gave it back only harder and from I can remember other teams loved to dish it out but could not take, a sin in my book, Leeds could dish it and take it. Let’s not forget they were a great foot balling side and a pleasure watch but frustrating being runners up so often. My two favourite players were Paul Madeley graceful player could play anywhere and Johnny Giles that I loved for his ability and tenacity, only later found out he was the hardest man in football and I think you will find voted by his peers all 5' 4" of him?! Revie was not unlike many managers who have built up something special over a period of time, although a great manager for their club he would never replicate his feats over a shorter time with completely different set of players just was not his style. If Leeds had several young English internationals it may have been possible as he could have used these players as the nucleus of an England team but I believed he failed simply because he was to set in his ways because he spent so long at Leeds and more importantly the game was changing. As for Clough I think he came across well showed his human side and obviously was still naive and learning his trade and just had a completely different take on the game a more modern approach if you like and as already been said this was an impossible job for anyone coming into that dressing room, I think if you were not a carbon copy of Revie and bowed to the power of the players you didn't stand a snowballs chance, but how good of a manager would that of been? Clough was correct in his thinking this ageing team was in need of an overhaul and therefore he brought a couple of players to start the process. Clough's playing career was touched on hear that he was an arrogant so in so and so he should have been with his goal scoring record played 274 scored 251 I don't anyone is close to that almost a goal a game! Can you imagine any player today even having half as good a goal scoring record they would/ or their agent would be demanding the earth.
My final thoughts on Revie. Can't trust a man who parts his hair just above the top of his ear: he's showing you he's deceiving you!
Another thing this thread throws up is the creating of rags to riches, club dynasties between the late 50s and 70s. Revie took Leeds, and Clough Derby and Forest respectively from second tier obscurity to league championships and greater glory in just a few years. Similar stories with Shankly at Liverpool and Ramsey at Ipswich. Absolutely amazing achievements then and virtually impossible nowadays. Any others we can think of?
Yeah you've touched on one of the things that intrigued me about the whole business Brix, that of legacy. Reading through the thread it seems most people agree that history has been unkind to Revie. As has been said his failure with England casts a shadow over his true legacy, that of dragging an entire club up from the lower reaches and turning them into a major force, here and abroad. That's what he should be remembered for. England, then as now, was a poisoned chalice. It's clear that BC was obsessed with DR and the whole dynamic of their relationship fascinates the hell out of me. They had so much in common. They grew up a few streets away from one another. They both played for the same club. They were both ahead of their time. They could inspire player's to "run through walls" for them. And yet... They inspired differently. Looking back at that interview and without knowing the background, if you were told one ruled through fear and the other not, who would you choose as which? The public and the private, it's a strange dichotomy. It all came together in those 44 days. The Damned United indeed. Some really good stuff on here and thanks to all who posted. (If you haven't read or seen it you should.) [video=youtube;dYBj_qAJtRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYBj_qAJtRA[/video] It's here. [video=youtube;qUyUFmZBvRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUyUFmZBvRg[/video]
Keegan tried with Newcastle. Didnt do a bad job until......well, we all know what happened don't we.........
What about Bobby Robson at Ipswich he nearly won the league on several occasions and won UEFA, FA & League cups.
