Hey guys! You (Ernie and ASChris) are amongst the best contributors to British fora over the years. Don't let Schumacher's original criticism spark off a falling out amongst us. His comment (in my opinion) was deliberately aimed at polarizing opinion in the hope of galvanising a persuasive pressure for change in his personal favour. He is divisive and manipulative. Let's not be victims of our own enjoyment. Ernie: I hear you! I really understand your argument. No doubt you will remember my concern when Pirelli were first mooted as the new tyre manufacturer? Bearing in mind my own experience of their tyres, I was pretty vocal over this, and very concerned that there would be so much debris that going off line in an effort to overtake would sacrifice about 2 laps. But they quickly overcame the 'major marbles' problem has not made overtaking more difficult. In fact, as they got hold of the situation (exacerbated through a lack of testing) I came to publicly acknowledge Pirelli's compliance with the demands of the order book appeared to be working rather well from the perspective of public spectacle: it was contributing to providing greater entertainment than before, and thereby fulfilling its remit rather better than I'd expected. I'm going to expand this comment up from tyres for a moment… Like you, I am a purist. However, I acknowledge that if F1 is to exist into the future, it will do so because it ticks the 'entertainment box' which was not an original requirement back in our day. It may be sad but unless tracks are scaled up in tune with the advances in aerodynamics (which will never happen from a purely practical point of view), the entertainment will be compromised –for the non-purist majority which F1 must now appeal to– unless there is innovation to offset such advances. Unfortunately, perfectionists such as us are likely to perceive such innovation as 'unpure' since we knew the old game under its old 'purer' rules. However much I lament it, I know that knowledge cannot be undone; and with it, technological advances will always force a change in the ball-game. It has evolved. It is a life-form and it cannot grow younger. ASChris: You understand the evolution but I'm sure you'll also see the value of –and ultimately the need for– the purism that harks back from the elder statesmen*. Without it, evolution can take a turn too quick in an unbalanced state and risk going straight off into a wall (oops: sorry about Silverstone, Mick…. - - -o0o- - - We have a common passion: we all love motor racing. And I'm sure that's why Ernie still takes an interest in F1 when he's not at Donington watching bikes! (Sort of where it all began for me… *…Perhaps I should even include Schumacher? Ha! This is a first: me including him in a comment about purism. Whatever next?!?!…
Chris: there was meant to be an element of jest in my 'junior' remark, however it appears due to your youthful exuberance it was missed. Regarding a Mr J Button, if he can't get the tyres to work who can.
Witmarsh now also changed his mind it seems. I have to look up the original english version for a source, will post it here when i find it. Here's the german text for the moment: ----- Whitmarsh: Neue Töne in der Pirelli-Diskussion .... Die generelle Entwicklung der Formel 1 ist nicht unbedingt nach dem Geschmack von Martin Whitmarsh, er kritisiert vor allem die Tatsache, dass die Reifen eine so zentrale Rolle spielen. Er erkennt in der klassischen Königsklasse einen Charakter, der von dem der heutigen Rennen abweicht: "Wir kennen die Formel 1 als ein Sprintrennen, bei dem Mensch und Maschine permanent ans Limit gehen oder getrieben werden. Das gibt es nicht mehr, wir müssen darauf achten, dass die Reifen nicht zu früh kaputtgehen", so Whitmarsh, der sich Veränderungen wünscht. "Ich denke, es wäre nicht schlecht, wenn die Reifen weniger ausschlaggebend für das Ergebnis sind und es wieder mehr auf andere Dinge ankommt." .... -----
Yes; good point about Button but of course it is his style which tends to generate less heat. As I think you have already pointed out, Ernie, the 'operating window' for these tyres is pretty narrow and if the tyres do not reach optimum temperature quickly, they will continue to offer less grip which makes it even more difficult to get them up to temperature. This can also (and usually does) involve tyre pressures which will remain too low unless the necessary heat can be generated. The way around this problem can be very tricky, since it involves an alteration of set-up (usually softening it) with the specific aim of generating more heat. However, once up to temperature, there will be less need for the softer set-up! Worse still, the softening of set-up for this purpose may be less than ideal for the circuit; and when the tyres are properly up to temperature and pressures the harder set-up would then be desirable! Most natural driving styles involve some tendency to go towards over or understeer. However, Button is exceptional in this regard, in that he prefers a dead neutral balance, 'carving' a turn like a perfect skier who throws up no snow, thus generating the least 'slip angle' of any driver on the grid. And despite his efforts (and successes) in modifying his style to work the tyres harder, it is still not natural to him in the way that it is for someone like Hamilton (oversteer: working rears hard) or Alonso (understeer: working fronts hard). Oddly enough, this also explains why, on the odd occasion he is able to get everything right, other drivers are left scratching their heads in near disbelief âthey cannot carve a turn like him because it is so unnatural to them! It's a funny old game but ultimately this puts more demand upon the driver, who has to be very skilful and very quickly able to adapt when it becomes clear that the tyres are behaving in a particular way at each circuit and under different circumstances and settings which worked just fine at the previous race. This is what is causing concern for some at the moment; but the driving challenge is greater than it was before! That's why I'm enjoying it.
^^ Indeed, the only season I can remember being so mixed up was 82, but for different reasons, the pirelli's aren't a matter of luck, they are a matter of driving skill, whichever driver manage to switch his tyres on will do well, rather than hoping your opponents car breaks down
Not sure your theory is correct, the Pirelli's have not yet been fully understood otherwise we would have had repeated win's by whoever has figured them out, its still a matter of considerable luck as to who passes the line first. IMHO.
so you prefer to see a team discover a loophole that means their cars are almost unbeatable? That is what has decided most titles over the last 20 years or so, which ever team is lucky enough to find a loophole that no one else sees. Now they ALL have the same struggle, only one person can put the correct heat in their tyres, and that person is the driver.
Not really, Michael is level on qualifying, the stat many liked to overuse in 2010 and 2011. But nobody is mentioning it now? hmm. The other reason Nico is ahead, is the reason he has suffered no more than one dnf, which was his own fault. Schumacher on the other hand, has had a handful of dnf's, and only one was his own fault. Button is doing a fine job at the moment, may not be blazing trails but he has had his share of bad luck, we still have a lot of the season to go, and anything is possible for both drivers.
Seeing how Schumacher was 2-0 up in qualifying, 3-3 isnt good. if you take his theoretical positions in each race, Rosberg would still be miles ahead too.
Hmmm - so the current debating few seem to have come back to the varying and clearly inconsistent tyres Pirelli provide. We have 6 different winners, many drivers clearly 'managing' tyre wear or heat, if you prefer. Success appears to be a result of a set up that allows enough heat to 'switch on' tyre performance, but is also predictable enabling good estimation of intervals between changes according to fuel weight. Few overtakes are required to achieve victories, just good race tyre strategy. This is now much more important than sheer driver ability, indeed now the quickest car doesn't win. Why is this happening? In a word 'Entertainment'. Dear leader Ecclestone has now managed to manipulate race outcome to keep the masses guessing. In fact it is also keeping the experts guessing. So buy your driver lottery ticket now - maybe a 7th name will be drawn out of the hat !
Well done Bergy, now why didn't I put it like that, sums up the current F1 f**k-up perfectly. Presumably you were down on the Thames yesterday, hope you got wet.
Yes we WERE going along to the Thames yesterday. Easy for us to get to Waterloo ( and Westminster area). However good sense prevailed (aka I persuaded her indoors) that queuing for hours, getting soaked, getting cold, queuing an hour for a loo, not being able to get a cuppa - all this instead of sitting comfortably with a hot drink and TV coverage or recording it. In the end I did some decorating while she was riveted to the screen........ What I saw was largely BORING. How did the BBC manage to make so many interesting buildings, boats and people SO TEDIOUS? A diverse set of commentators who were awful, uninformed and told us regularly which one was the Queen or Prince Philip. Some of us already knew. There were about 10 boats with music - you wouldn't have known. Why on earth did the poor Queen have to stand there getting tired, cold, bored and in dire need of a cup of tea or a brandy? Are the organisers trying to finish her off - poor old soul? It doesn't bother me that the extended family might all catch pneumonia - but I respect the Queen and wish she'd slipped away for half an hour below decks. RANT OVER..
Yea Bergy, watching Pirelli tyres going off is preferable to watching very wet spectators getting even wetter, sadly it's all a bit of a non event.
Assumptions made on blind belief is a bit dim. Schumacher was running 3rd in Aus, 4th in Malaysia, 2nd in China, so no mate, Rosberg would not be miles ahead, infact I think he may me level or a bit behind.
