Stadiums of Hate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jk4vr/Panorama_Euro_2012_Stadiums_of_Hate/

Panorama documentary on Polish & Ukranian supporters. Only 30 mins, worth a watch

can't believe FIFA allowed Poland & Ukraine to host the Euros after seeing this. total disgrace.

 

Authorities are playing this down but after watching this and one of Ross Kemp's " Gangs " programmes on football hooligans in Eastern Europe I'm not surprised that the English FA have returned thousands of unsold tickets.
How on earth did these countries get these championships?

 

I'm just hoping this doesn't come back to bite us on the arse. You just know that if any England fans get provoked/attacked it will be all our fault and Platini and Blatter will be glad to stick the boot in

 

How would you feel about Italy hosting a tournment though because they have similar sorts of problems at times?

BBC Panorama have a history of producing documentaries that are quite detached from reality. We'll see once we get over there if the problems are as bad as they have painted. If they prove to be then of course you'd have to question how wise it was to take tournaments there. But I'm not convinced this is an accurate reflection of what to expect.

Certain parts of America are every bit as bad in terms of racism as some of what is shown there but there were was no questions asked when they hosted in 94.

 

because the problems in those places you mentioned are not widespread. I'd think twice about Napoli, but the rest of Italy - while still having racist undercurrents - does not suffer from racist violence and demonstrations to *anywhere near* the level seen in Ukraine on a regular basis.

Same goes for the USA - it's not like they would host the games in backwater rural Alabama. FFS, their President is black....

Here's hoping it's dealt with though.

 

detached from reality?

the video footage is not lying....

all that was happening in an actual stadium and nothing was done.....you would never see seens like that in England

No way on earth those countries should have been give the EUROs

 

I think you may be misreading my post. I have never said you'd see this in an English stadium. I'm saying you do see (and I have seen it with my own eyes in Rome) this sort of thing in Italian stadiums. You can't have one rule for one and a different rule for the other. So if you are going to stop the likes of Poland, then it must be Italy also. And it must be any other country where there is a significant amount of this kind of behaviour.

Does Panorama showing you a very small snapshot of some of the ills happening in their football, automatically mean that its widespread and the norm as they have painted in the programme? Of course not, you'd have to be naive in the extreme to think that. Panorama have a history of this kind of thing. They could have released this document months ago. Why didn't they? Its pretty obvious why they didn't. It wouldn't have caused the same furore. Some naive people would say "its good they are exposing them for what they are" Maybe so but it would have been even better to give the authorities more time to think about it. That in itself tells you this documentary is nothing more that PR driven exercise.

And do you really think the Poles and the Ukranians are not aware of their domestic football problems. Security will be on a different level to what these countries can afford on a normal weekend of football.

We shall see in the summer but I'll be very surprised to see scenes like that at every match as Panorama are trying to have everyone believe. I'm sure I don't have to point out that programmes can be edited in such a way to give the viewer a very skewed view of the reality. The proof will be in the pudding as always but I have to say I'm not expecting the racist nightmare that some are.

 

I have to agree with WP, I could go out and video any example of violence, especially after a derby game, as most of the games in the documentary were, and claim that is how every game in England ends up every week. I also think policing in an International tournament will be of a much higher standard than they see in the domestic game, so I don't see a huge issue. I could be wrong however, but time will tell.

 

Eastern Europe in general is rife with racism. It's part of their culture unfortunately. I know Panorama have a tendency to be biased in their reporting but this documentary summed up perfectly the reality of Poland, Ukraine and the east. Don't believe it's as bad as they made out? Go to Russia, Bulgaria, parts of Romania, Belarus, Serbia and Croatia. Their racism is ingrained. I've seen it for myself. Bulgarian 'fans' were aiming monkey chants and all kinds of expletives at our black players. Nigerian players in Bulgaria are subjected to disgraceful abuse week after week. Fans in the Russian league are notorious for throwing missiles and abuse at non-white players. Samuel E'too unfortunately has been target during his time at Anzhi. Serbian 'fans' are known to be racist to the point of being a threat to the safety of those they target.

My point? Poland and the Ukraine are a hybrid of all of this. What Panorama didn't show you is the threats the black players received entering the stadiums. Not just abuse, but racist idiots making slit throating gestures to the players. There are incidents of asian/ black/ ethnic fans being beaten up week after week before, during and after games. People are attacked simply walking down the street because of the colour of their skin. It happens in Kiev, Donetsk, Warsaw, Krakow and countless other places. It tells you something when our own government has issued warnings about the possiblity of racist attacks to our fans. How these two countries got this tournament beggars belief and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was actually killed.

 

What's worse is how both countries are in so much denial and consider the programme to be 'propaganda' and an attack on their nation.

This was made in response and is full of hate for the BBC:

[video=youtube;wK171IU-nCk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK171IU-nCk&lc=PH78Nq_csYDPbdSR0d0UW0bSJTw_3B8sF3dfdawZMZM&feature=inbox[/video]

 

Far too many are sucked in by these kinds of programmes. All the people who are condemning the decision to go there have only come out of the woodwork since its airing. Little has been said yet we've known the tournament was going there for how long now? Now all of a sudden its a hell hole where people are likely to get hurt or worse. its laughable.

I must admit though its that they ignore that places like Italy have the exact same issues thats frustrating. I have no problem if people want to take a strong stance with countries who have these problems. But you can't pick and choose, it has to be ALL

 

FIFA are so corrupt

 

Now there is something we can all agree on

 

You think that's bad?

What about the ****ing world cups in Qatar and Russia?

 

Ukraine is the country those sick bastards who made the 3 guys 1 hammer video came from.

They did the same thing more than a dozen people. Kidnapped them, injected them with some jollop so they couldn't move or scream, and tortured them slowly to death while filiming it.

They did the same thing to over a dozen people, and several animals, then pissed the graves of their victims and even took a picture of themselves sticking their fingers up at the victims dead bodies in the morgue.

The two doing the torturing only got 13 years, the guy holding the camera only got 7.

Never going to Ukraine, ever!

 

http://www.jasonrh.com/kits/chelseanazis.jpg

As I said in a previous thread on this misguided bit of easy-target scaremongering, this behaviour is RIFE is Italy and Spain at the highest level. Inter were fined this season when Muntari was racially abused, the Madrid Ultras Sur regularly unfurl racist banners and Lazio and Juve fans had nazi and Celtic cross flags at this seasons Italian Cup final.

This 30 minute program was I'll informed and reactionary, picking on an easy target without giving any political background to these two countries. In no way is the behaviour of their fans acceptable, but you are talking about countries that are culturally, decades behind us, die to communism and war. Education is needed and not ostracising, this is UEFA's job. Them and FIFA need to punish the 'big boys', the racist ultras that turn up at champions league games and in the worlds biggest leagues, making an example of them would set a much stronger example than highlighting a problem on less culturally developed states.