I didn't see the program. However, I remember vividly the so-called organised hooliganism surrounding Oxford United, going back to the early 80s. I was living in Oxford at the time, and often got caught up in the tussles (not as a participant, I hasten to add). It was a hard core of fans (both Oxford and visiting), and they have organised fights. I suppose some of it got pretty dirty, depending on what your view/experience is of that sort of thing. To my direct knowledge, no innocent by-standers or passers-by (such as myself) ever got harmed. These blokes seemed to know who was up for the ruck and who wasn't. I can honestly say that I never felt threatened by any of it. But if you had believed the media at the time, including the several documentaries that were shown to scare middle Britain, you would have concluded that anarchy reigned and the second coming of Satan was about to be unleashed on everything that we all hold dear. I can tell you, for an absolute fact, that it wasn't any where near as bad as the propagandist media portrayed it.
Here's the clip of the Asian students: [video=youtube;xEnSPer-Cmg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEnSPer-Cmg[/video] If anyone fancies watching the whole thing: [video=youtube;z93iQgI3_Iw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93iQgI3_Iw[/video]
how can the Poles be pro Fascist/Nazism when they were the first people to get a new arsehole ripped by Hitler? Not to mention the way the Isrealis treat the Palastinians considering their own background and ethnic treatment...thats a whole new debate and one which i find rather disturbing. but i will say these sets of people are the scum of the earth.
Will probably find myself in a minority but I always thought Cantona had the right idea of how to deal with racist fans. He got banned for 9 months and called a nutter but scum were less likely to be racist towards him! It is all horrific but we are kidding ourselves if we think it's gone from English football...me and my then 12 yr old daughter got a whole load of anti asian racist **** from some pompey fans on our way to wembley 2 years ago...There are plenty of racists in this country and football is not immune...look at all those justifying/defending Suarez...they may not be racist but they point blank refuse to condemn his behaviour just like the official in the panorama programme who refused to admit that the the fans were sieg heiling. When the nazi supporters in the EDL (english defence league) seig heil their way through Luton, Milton keynes, parts of london etc. the media report on them like they are legit rather than expose their links to nazi groups in britain and in europe...finally it is a society problem not a football one...
no your not in a minority Colin..i for one agree with you...i just dont understand how one can become like that.
The FA still pretend there is no racism or hooliganism in the English game, which is a major part of the problem. To say they were eradicated ahead of Euro '96 (or whatever the date they put on racism leaving the English game), it's an utter fallacy of the most deluded order. No wonder Liverpool thought it was worth trying to pull the wool over their eyes with their remarkably different use of the Spanish language to what the rest of the Spanish-speaking world uses. It's an extreme way of saying "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Stalinism isn't that big in Germany, though...
That was one thing that done my head in, how Polish can be so aggresive to Jews. When a fan was asked, my understanding was that its an insult between two hardnut sets of fans, to be called one is because of how easily they walked to their death without fight. I see the reference, but to use that as the example is, well, staggering quite frankly, and its been going on years with all the Star of David graffitti everywhere, I'm just baffled the country who must revere those who died, can just basically allow it.
I'm not too sure of the exact exchange between Suarez and Evra. In Spanish Negro simply means black. So if he said " No hablo a Negros" yes, that would mean I don't talk to blacks.
He called him negrito several times in succession, which goes beyond just calling him negro - although Liverpool's repeated attempts to try and say that negrito means something different in Uruguayan Spanish is what led the FA to add a few extra games to his ban, and they said so in their statement when making the decision.
Maybe it is worse than the UK, but certainly not as bad as it has been in the Uk in the past. By the way the fans were not shouting Zieg Heil It was not 100% of the fans - it was a minority of organised gangs called the Ultra's The violence, thoug disgusting, was no worse than I have personally seen at English grounds The whole Panorama programme was biased and frankly propaganda.
It's an issue that needs sorting by the powers that be, but the programme did smack of sensationalist journalism. They couldn't even get the map of Europe right (@ 15:01 mins). They seemed to focus on gangs of undereducated fukwits, giving them their 15 minutes of fame. One of the guys they 1st interviewed in the Ukraine had a patch on his jacket with the olympic rings on it, a symbol that kinda goes againt their 'principles'. These so called fans came across as local hicks defending their 'manor', and probably wouldn't be seen anywhere near an international football match. All society's have these numpties, there's not a month goes by in Dublin, of some report of an attack on an immigrant(s), be it African, Asian or eastern European, in one of the sink(working class) estates around and in the city. And the Celtic cross is a banned symbol of racisim in Poland? WTF will they do when 1000's of Irish show up with some sporting these banned symbols on their flags and T-shirts?
1. Yes they were in one clip. 2. Depends how old you are, you will not have seen scenes like that inside an English ground for a couple of decades at least, and will never have seen stewards and Police just stood around watching a similar scene. 3. The only people saying that atm are...Polish and Ukrainian...how odd! Don't quite know what you're trying to prove with this.
I don't think the program would have been biased or out and out propaganda, but I have absolutely no doubts that it would have exaggerated the problem. It has exaggerated every single hooligan "problem" that we have ever had in this country. Why would it strive to be any more favourable to the problems of Johnny Foreigner? If anything, it'll be far worse, since there is less chance of it being found out.
Indeed. I had to stop taking, my then little kids, to football in the late seventies because the violence, both inside and outside the grounds was becoming ridiculous. That's before we get to some of the language, and some of the songs!
I think that you'd have to look pretty hard to find fans racially abusing one of their own players and beating up others fans supporting their own side due to their skin colour in England. No doubt a lot of it was exaggerated, but when you've got whole sections singing anti-Semitic songs and throwing fascist salutes, I'd say that there are some problems.
You just have to look as far as West Ham last season for a couple of notable examples of it... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/12957669 http://www.espnstar.com/football/pr...il/item622975/Demba-Ba-confirms-racist-abuse/
