So... When this financial fair play kicks in next season, i'm going to be so very freakin interested in what UEFA is going to do when they clubs like Chelsea and ManU still spend over a 100 million in the summer. Besiktas has been ruled out for European competitions due to financial mis-management. I'm really looking forward to how UEFA is going to react towards the big clubs. When they breach the new financial fair play rules.
I just sat and wrote a long thread then pressed wrong button and lost it all....doh In short what I was saying was money is no guarantee of success as Newcastle proved last season and arsenal have for years. We cannot look to go from also rans to champions in one season. 4th must be our target next year. Get CL football again attract better players more funds available etc etc. let's give rogers a chance before crucifying him and if you really think FSG will give him 300 mill to spend (or anyone actually) then you are very sadly deluded. This is a "work in progress" and may take A few years and a lot of patience on our part to get there. As someone said if they had that much to spend then sort the stadium out. On a different matter what are the odds on hazard being this years Balottelli, a week ago he was goons be playing for one of the Manchester clubs but turned down a chance to play for either the champions or Utd with all their history. Instead he chose the plastics because they waved more money at him. Well suited I say
Actually viruses evolve incredibly quickly so the analogy is flawed. But never mind. Evolution isn't an adequate description for what FSG are doing. Revolution is what you have seen this summer. Brutal & bloody and quick.Will it get them what they want? Who knows? It needs time to return to balance. And yes if these owners want the success they claim they will have to spend a lot of money. Bandy whatever figure you want around it will be millions. Most "other fans" that comment on here come from the initial position that we are finished no matter what is changed or spent. The emotive shines through no matter how "logical" they claim their arguments. Their motives ARE logical. They don't want to see it work. They don't want to see us succeed because it will be at the expense of their club/s. So continue talking about delusion. The fans aren't running the club; FSG are. Either they're good at what they do and we'll be invading your boards with smug "where are you now" or it won't work & you'll be kicking a dead horse...... I personally think success will come in stages & 300 million won't be needed for stage on; competing for champions league. This manger producing, existing players producing & some investment in new players will get us there. Then we can worry about how to convince the truly world class that we can compete with United, Chekse & City.
My analogy with Biology wasn't viruses it was the Theory of Evolution, any definition of evolving will focus on the word 'gradually' and in Biology you generally work not in years but in generations! Its a step-by-step process, but i digress. My point was that I think people thinking the usage of the word evolve to suggest immediate change are getting the wrong end of the stick as it actually means the exact opposite.
Chicken and egg thing really: do we spend big (with money we haven't got) to get back in the CL, or do we give the manager reasonable funds (@ £40m per season?) and time (3-4 seasons?)to get back into the CL, and then spend big? One thing's for certain - there wasn't much point in giving Falglish £40m net and only giving him one season. If Rodgers doesn't improve on 8th, will they sack him? MUST be given time and our unnequivical support, and let's hope the football is getting better as Kenny undoubtedly tried to do. Pass-and-move and patience everyone. Shanks had won nothing whem he came to Liverpool and it took him five seasons to win anything with us.
ps. By no means do i think Liverpool are finished, I think you will definately be back challenging with the big boys, i just think it'll be a few years down the road. To be honest I think it would be better for you in the long run to push for sustainable growth and progress rather than splashing money all over which raises questions as to where its all coming from, you're a massive club and can afford to outspend 16/17 of the other premiership clubs by a few million every year - that means you should, over time, rise back up.
Ok I was playing hard & loose with your analogy & you are right anyone describing this process as evolution is in error. Hence my use of the word Revolution which in itself is slightly incorrect but a more accurate description. Politically speaking what will take time after the upheaval is the consolidation.
Lots ions in there! And yes sustainability is their declared goal & I can see why: after hearing long term but seeing massive reaction at short term failure people have got nervous. But....I'm taking a guess that FSG weren't seeing KD as short term failure they were seeing him(rightly or wrongly) as symptomatic of overall long term structural (20 years) failure of the club. Now they've put THEIR structure in place it'll be back to long term.
I think we're on the same lines here Frank We Newcastle fans must have had 10 revolutions in the decade or so following Keegan Reign Mk#1 and to be honest we are enjoying our evolution much more - there's alot to be said for balancing the books. I don't think FSG should be hounded out if they don't splash the cash, if all they do this summer is get the right personnel in place and make enough resources available to be able to move on expensive players that are no longer needed and bring in reasonable prospects (not kids but well-scouted players who can adapt over the next couple of seasons to the league). In truth its easy as a fan to get hung up on price tags but you only really know how successful a summers dealings have been until a year or two down the line.
In truth Liverpool's squad as it stands is not a million miles away from finishing in the top 4 as it stands. Last season was very very frustrating and ended up being one of IFs - If we hadn't lost Suarez for 9 games, If we hadn't hit the woodwork 33 times, If Gerrard had been fit all season, If Carroll hadn't waited until the end of the season to show some form, etc. etc. The sum total of all of those Ifs was were we ended up. However we do know just how good some of the football we played actually was. We did see us totally dominate sides. The truth is that, on this occasion, we did not get the points that we deserved. Most certainly the squad can and needs to be improved. We do not need revolution. We do not need to splash the cash. We do need to bring in even more quality. That is the new manager's dilema.
I am frankly aghast at some of the statements people make stating others haven't a clue and then go make a point that's facile. I quote: "Evolving means to do it gradually over a (usually) prolonged period of time and it is entirely consistent with their comments if they appoint a young manager and give him a moderate budget every year £10-£15m with the remit of gaining a few more points each year and developing the team with an aim for a few years down the line." in the context of football this tpye of approach would lead to: a) top players wanting out and quick. b) lesser, risker players being the only game in town. If downing cost 20mil then i'm afraid 10-15mil leads us to one or two hopeful buys. Yes Newcastle have done well RECENTLY but over 5 years you are more likely to end up with a bebe, kelberson type player than cisse or ba. c) you will find that your senior players get old and fast, worse they age on your pitch not someone else's. Kuyt, maxi, carragher, cole, gerrard and bellamy are all aging. If you give rodgers 10-15mil all he can do is replace one or at best two at a time and in all likelyhood you are into the scenario rafa faced.... namely your team disappearing before your eyes. d) inevitably with this structure you will try to retain all players cos you can't afford to lose a warm body... you over pay players to keep them for fear of losing them and the squad becomes turgid. I hope this knocks the long slow thing on the head... evolution or revolution in football terms bears no relation to the normal world.... city are a revolution. Utd are in an evolutionary period where you can clearly see the future team being brought along while senior players are still there... ergo why scholes is back. Dare i say it evolution is welbeck coming in and berbatov out.... jones, young, smalling being purchased while ferdinand and vidic and giggs still being relied on. In other words an evolution is a seemless transition form team to team. Mark my words LFC require a revolution to truly compete. Now that said compared to 18m months ago under roy we've already had a revolution. 18th and terrible players like poulsen to a cup win and 8th (not great) but with 7 new players. I am saying the elephant in the room is whether or not we back the new guy with the funds to achieve the ambition that sacking kenny signals. reality check... two forwards at the club, kuyt nor bellamy are any back up really. we need 4 proper strikers. Midfield disaster zone since January... a defense with no specialist left back cover and an aged carragher. There's a lot to go do to compete with spurs and arsenal. All the ifs and buts don't change those facts. 4th should be easy you guys might be right on that but to sustain it more than one year you HAVE to be ready to compete in the CL as well and get 4th. spurs found they could not and frankly saha and nelson are a joke on this basis. Do you want the likes of saha and nelson??? Finally.... Financial fair play... the champions league just got won by a team that has lost 70million year on year... barca couldn't pay players over the summer. Real don't care... I honestly believe those rules are going to be easily got round and the way fees are going either we put up or shut up.
I think there is alot of truth in this article. BUt I also think we have to consider how the money is spent..... If we have 30 million to spend, then I hope we just buy one really quality player and allow him to influence the good youth we have. Rather than spend 30 million on 3 average players who will just stopour decent youth from getting opportunities. Our owners want to buy 30 million pound players, they just want to biuy them 3 years earlier when they cost a maximum of a sixth of the price and i like that....It means that Judas's at least turn a decent profit....we have to have good players here though to inspire and teach the youth...... If we get 30 million, lets spend it on one quality player. Or maybe a bargain like affelay (6 million) and then another suarez for 24 million.....
First of all i would like to say congratulations to Brendan Rodgers, I've read a bit about him and seems like a really likable man with tactics that suit us and i wish him the best of luck at liverpool fc. I agree that we need to spend money to improve, but liverpool have never been a massive spending club as we never had the resources. Our record signing is andy carroll when manu were spending the same amount 10 years ago on Rio. Ultimately liverpool will not be spending their way to the top but hopefully somewhere down the line with some sound management and good investment we will be able to earn our first PL title. I for one will be much happier if we do it that way and dont just buy it with ilgotten money like teams with no history have to. Afterall after 20 years in the doldrums we are still one of the most sucessful clubs in europe, we dont need to buy pride or history as we will always have it and whatever happens i will always love LFC.
Isn't that just putting all your eggs in one basket? Doesn't always work out and there are plenty of examples in the PL of that. Circa 30mill could, for example, buy us Rasmus Elm (12ish), De Jong (12ish) and Affelay (6ish) All improvements on what we have. All young with big potential. All cheap. That's where I'd be spending the money if I had it
To be honest i think that id take those three for 30 million and be happy....Maybe i was a bit extreme, you see what im saying though,,,the moneu has to be well spent whatever we spend....we have had too many Poulsens and Keanes in the last few years for anyones liking.....I couldnt care how much we spend, so long as we answer our frailties and improve the squad
Obviously FFP will play a part in the thinking of the club - we don't want to be made an example of (no longer being considered a 'true' giant in Europe anymore, but with Platini wanting to show muscle over FFP, and already used it on Besiktas, again a team with a European pedigree, but not a giant) - as well as not having the naked wealth to compete with ManCiteh or Chelsea. We do have some players who will have to make way - Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy are the ones springing immediately to mind - but are probably not completely spent yet. The core is already in place Reina, Enrique, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Downing, Henderson, Lucas, Adam, Suarez, Carroll. That is not a bad line up with all fit and playing to their abilities. But the depth is just not there yet - witness - Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy plus Doni(Gulacsi), Robinson, Coates, Kelly, Flanagan, Sterling, Shelvey, Conor, Spearing, Suso(Joao Carlos), Ecclestone The biggest weakness seems to be on the left side in general, followed by up front... If the manager can get £30mil per season plus income from sales, and the club can get a bigger ground (say 65,000) I think we should be able to evolve the team in the coming seasons. If he can bring Scott Sinclair with him, that would be a good start...
First it used to be the case a long time ago that paisley would say.. let players age on someone else's pitch.... we have players who effectively can't run/won't run and look every day of thier age. second we have had the resources and we did spend loads guys. much wasted. since G&H effectively busted us and fsg took over that is all now moot. we are in a new ownership era with no debt so the amount of spending here on in is theirs. If they choose to capitalize us then fine.. if they choose to let us borrow to spend thats not good and if the restrict us to spending only what we earn we may as well turn the lights off. the point regarding those 3 younger players is made reasonably if those were the prices. they could be a lot more. if we just look at city the spent 112% of revenue ALONE on wages, never mind transfers so that is what bought the league. Chelsea splashed cash and lost hand over fist year on year to grab the CL. Utd on the other hand have bought younger guys but have spend 30mil+ spent the money required and are consistently up there. It is the utd model that FSG need to follow. I'm firmly of the opinion that the players i named are not up to it to get near top 4 and the young lads are decent but not that hot, there are one or two but that's about it. Its not all rosey.... name you 25 man squad and tell me i'm wrong about the fact that replacing those players I'm talking about and adding in new ones wouldn't improve it radically.
MITO, there is no United model. United's spending has been constrained by the level of their debt - nothing more and nothing less. It is not a strategy in itself. The result of their peculiar situation is clearly shown in the state of their midfield and their reliance upon both Giggs and Scholes. None of their defensive youngsters is anywhere near ready to replace Ferdinand and Vidic. Now if you mean that we too should be looking for younger players with potential then I will totally agree with you. However, that is a very congested segment of the market and therefore well over-priced.
there is a utd strategy. 1. have the biggest revenue. 2. have the biggest stadium 3. spend on younger players and players that are going to succeed. (see 30mil on some guys and 20mil on players like jones) this is their model. the city and chelsea model is to spend your owners money like water. I think we have to admit their model has worked through the careful administrations of ferguson despite the harvesting the glaziers have done to their profits. they have bought jones and smalling and young for 60 odd mil, that no chump change. So right now they are not competing by choice on players with city. that's their plan and t meant they won nothing but Utd will be around in 50 years time... will city? utd deffo have a strategy.. we would do best following that as FSG are not oil rich man men... I just hope we can buy enough talent to improve enough as players drop out from age etc. Rafa got close to this once but in the end was relying on a bit of luck with injuries and it didn't happen. if we build a real 25man squad (including real u21 player that actually can play) we can compete. if we build a 16man squad with no hopers or aged folks then thats not so hot.
Sorry mate but there isn't. There is a response to the situation that the club find itself in - nothing more and nothing less. YOU are shuffling pieces to amke it appear that it is proactive rather than reactive.
