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Daily Record leads The Way Again..

Discussion in 'Celtic' started by rogueleader, May 5, 2012.

  1. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    That all seems fair enough. Just as a brief point, though: if the American neo-conservative right adopt a policy which suddenly - for whatever reason - chimes with those views of someone believing themselves to be standing to the left, does this make the leftward leaning outlook right-wing? As a further by the by, one of my least favourite things (especially in Scotland) is loyalty to a political party. Can't stand that stuff. If someone I don't like has a good (or better) idea, I'm always going to put the goodness of their idea above my dislike. The alternative feels numbing, tribal and anti-progressive, as well as being faintly childish.

    Going back a bit.....

    That all sounds pretty familiar – and nice one for ordering the books, by the way - especially the bit about (effectively) giving up on TV, searching out documentaries online, dribbling over quality HBO shows (I get boxsets and sloth my way through far too many episodes of stuff at one sitting – but my brain’s active, for sure, it’s constantly having to decide which flavour of crisp my trailing hand should next stuff in my mouth) and needing your brain to be doing something.

    The subject of how the internet/technology/gadgetry may be affecting us is probably too huge to tackle in such a confined space, anyway, but I’m very happy to accept that some people consider themselves unaffected and may feel themselves to be thriving in such an arena.

    Just for the sake of it, and specifically regarding email, I’m always minded to remember how things predominantly once were, up until the comparatively recent past (Luddite alert, somebody strike up the Hovis tune): the postman came, delivered the post - and that was pretty much that. In no way whatsoever would I then constantly run out to the postbox to check whether he’d been again. And again. And again.....continuing the habit until I fell asleep at night. There seems to be a growing body of evidence, however – if some of these frothing books are to be believed – that this is exactly what a great number of people do with their emails. Why? What’s wrong with waiting? What’s the hurry? (I’m talking specifically of personal correspondence, not things that may actually be reasonably dependent on speed – like business, say.)

    With this wholly manufactured sense of urgency – and you can see this manufactured sense of urgency replicated on any number of ****ty TV shows where ****ty challenges are set for ****ty people who have entirely lost any sense of perspective (they cry, they spill their guts, they seem to believe it matters) - comes a carelessness, with many firing off the most woundingly inane bullshit without so much as a thought passing through their heads. (And we need only look at almost any internet forum to see that people are made near insane in their desire to have an opinion Right Now. Delayed gratification is a foreign concept in the rush to appear smart, cutting or maybe simply one of the lads. Construct a decent argument? Listen to what someone else is actually saying? Why bother when you can bash out unadulterated ****e in 140 characters or less. Irreflective stupidity is actively encouraged.)

    I don’t really know how, precisely, but this all feels somehow linked to unthinking unhappiness (as opposed to a well thought out depression), casually recorded and applauded violence on YouTube (amongst many other places) and the attendant blurring of reality and entertainment this must bring, the stupefying veneration of celebrity, fame for the sake of fame and the Wikipedia intellects of the can-do, must-have, surface-smart generation.

    Someone needs to write a book. <grr>
     
    #81
  2. EspaniaCelt

    EspaniaCelt Well-Known Member

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    So when is your's coming out?
    (Remember, as the insightful George W. Bush is purported to have said, ""One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.")
     
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  3. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    George Bush was inspirational, wasn&#8217;t he? Amongst my favourites:

    You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.

    Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?

    I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family.


    How we miss him.
     
    #83
  4. EspaniaCelt

    EspaniaCelt Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> 'Inspirational' is one way of putting it ... some gems there!

    I remember being particularly moved by:

    "I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."

    "And so the fact that they purchased the machine meant somebody had to make the machine. And when somebody makes a machine, it means there's jobs at the machine-making place."

    "I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah."
     
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  5. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    Fair point, I believe both Hitler and Stalin, despite being defined as opposite ends of a political spectrum, ultimately both engaged in the policy of sending their armies into other people's countries - and they also shared a lot of other policies to the point where an outsider not versed in our traditional left v right squabbles could probably question if they were at all very different.

    Personally I struggle to define myself in a particular side of the political spectrum - A liberal, pro-business, pro-low tax, pro-small state, supporter of the NHS, anti-Union, pro-gay marriage and adoption (I've softened on the adoption position as I've got older), anti-abortion... I'm realising I'm coming across as an America style Neoconservative <laugh>

    I do have some rather lefty tendencies though and some rather extreme positions. I'm certainly pro wealth redistribution - but my emphasis would be closing the education gap and letting the strongest people rise to the top of the social ladder - rather than taking from successful people and handing it to bums. I'm also into the likes of pragmatic benefits such as Working Family Tax Credits - unproductive citizens cost money, find a way to incentivise them into work through tax breaks, and help them get their kids minded while they are at it.

    Quite perversely for some I'm quite against inheritance above a certain level (say a maximum of 50k split between all parties?). If we are to achieve an equal society then we should all pretty much start from a level position, whoever dies with the most money doesn't get to create a privileged second generation, the second generation starts from a similar position to the first. Close any loopholes allowing you to transfer wealth through the back door - make everyone know from a young age that what you achieve in this life is what you get. It will not close the gap by itself (because we'll still have private education, health and whatnot) but it would be a start in pushing towards a more competitive society, focussed towards individual achievement, rather than a society who believes they are due privilege for whatever reason (I was born in this country and that brown person wasn't, my da is Bill Gates etc).

    Of course such revolutionary ways to manage the wealth of a nation require not only the consensus of the ageing ruling classes who have death and inheritance on their minds, but also every other nation - and I well know from my own background that won't happen. So it's a bit of a pipe dream... until after my bloody coup when I become Lord Protector of Europe <ok>

    In terms of the whole interventionist debate, I would have a tendency to be a pacifist. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with intervening on humanitarian grounds in the likes of Libya - I just believe you either do this properly or you don't do it at all - If you want to intervene in Libya then you must do Syria. If you criticise a Libyan dictatorship (which you recently whined and dined in London) then you must come out against Saudi Arabian dictatorships, or Chinese dictatorships or Russian election fraud. To pick and chose the dictatorships which no longer suit you is to treat me as a fool.

    The funny thing about this as well is I would probably accept the honest answer, the answer that you need to stabilise resources for your country - and can we really complain if we liberate a people while we are at it? But no it's always the falsehoods and the misrepresentations of having moral authority which drive me right up the wall.

    A few points to consider - for one, the sight of News Proper reporting on Rio Ferdinand's mini-opinion on Twitter, as news - or the fact that I have somehow acquired a lot of knowledge on Katy Price's love life over the last decade, despite actively putting effort into avoiding such information - gives me a desire to kick off a scenario which ultimately ends in me being offered some Chicken Wings by Gazza.

    I check my emails several times a day, but unless it's something to do with money or work obviously I usually don't bother reading communications. I'm far too lazy and I believe the last 13 or 14 years of always being wired into such communications has broke the thrill for me. I'll quantify it by this wee screen grab <ok>

    please log in to view this image
     
    #85
  6. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    At least one of those pms is from me <grr>
     
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  7. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    You're probably the friend request as well ya prick <ok>
     
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  8. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    <laugh>

    Nah, def not from me.
     
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  9. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    Oh my God, the machine-making one is like art. You always sort of know what he's meaning - even if he doesn't have the first idea - and kind of hope he gets to the end of the sentence alive. I could barely watch him speak, Espania, it set me on edge too much and made me nervous (a bit like how I feel if I force myself to listen to a radio phone-in).

    I've just been quickly trying to find a clip that is particularly excruciating but couldn't seem to lay my hands on it. I wanted to inflict it on you (even though I'm sure you'll have seen it already). Anyway, I think he starts off by saying something like "there's an old saying in Texas....." and then kind of melts into an agonising fog as he forgets what this old saying might be. It's so bad it actually hurts my soul and very nearly makes me feel sorry for the man.

    I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah......

    Momentous.

    There's probably a degree of skill in being so bad.


    Mick - nice one. I'll get back to you on all that.
     
    #89
  10. Glesgabhoy67

    Glesgabhoy67 Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;eKgPY1adc0A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A[/video]

    I believe this was it?
     
    #90
  11. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    Good man, that's the one. I suppose I should thank you, but I'm not sure that would be appropriate.
     
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  12. Ciaran

    Ciaran Going for 55

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    Some brilliant, informative posts.

    George carried me through with the laughs though.

    Biggest puppet ever.
     
    #92
  13. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    It's probably too soon to change the topic from the masses of waffle I've been chucking in every direction, before that waffle has even had a chance to digest, but...

    If anyone hasn't seen 'Game Change' I'd recommend it. It could almost be an American propaganda movie, an hour and whatever minutes excusing themselves, the entire nation, for Sarah Palin. It clarifies the comedy of errors that led to her almost being elected to possibly the second most powerful position on the planet, despite not knowing which religion the people of Israel followed.
     
    #93
  14. Barrie Lochrie

    Barrie Lochrie New Member

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    I Sky+ it weeks ago and not managed to watch it with all the football on the box just now!!
     
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  15. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, watching the press trawl Twitter or Facebook to harvest meaningless additions to the news leaves me frozen with Horrified Old Man Outrage (HOMO). I like hearing other people’s opinions – I love it, in fact, it’s the only way to go – but I’d rather just watch the news being presented in a factual and dispassionate manner before trying to draw my own conclusions. After that, no worries, I can hear what my neighbour or plumber have to say. To see these freshly minted opinions run concurrently with the news, however, has never felt like a good idea. Have Your Say, they enjoin us, in a fireside-friendly manner, as if we were all quite matey, dangerously blurring the lines between expert opinion and the views of your average Steve in Kent.

    And when the Twittery opinion of someone like Rio Ferdinand actually is the news, of course, then we’re all in a very bad place - and can hardly be blamed if we give in to the vexed urges of our inner HOMO.

    But then you see all these young folk who are obsessed with their gadgets and mobile phones and whatnot, even in supposedly social settings like weddings, say, or family meals. Never mind walking down the street. Got to say something now, got to say something now, got to say something now.......tap tap tap, mouths agape, oblivious to the world around them. What’s that all about? My wee nephews and niece are often so wholly engaged with texting, for example, that they barely even notice if you’re rubbing their thighs and young bits inappropriately - exactly the kind of detached social inattention that could put them at serious risk from sexual predators somewhere down the line.

    The state of your inbox – 149 unread private messages? – is a disgrace, by the way. Sort your **** out, Administrator, the people need to have their say.

    Back to all the rest later......

    (I'd love to see Game Change, incidentally, sounds good: "It could almost be an American propaganda movie, an hour and whatever minutes excusing themselves, the entire nation, for Sarah Palin." There is no excuse for Sarah Palin. Never has been. I'm going to have to track this film down.)
     
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  16. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and the extreme left and right often seem to have this weird habit of overlapping. (I notice with a kind of resigned dismay that anti-Jewish rhetoric is presently doing the rounds of the (supposedly civilised dinner party set) left again, however hard they try to dress it all up - sometimes they don't even bother doing that, in fact.)

    God, well done for having a go - I struggle to nail my political tendencies. I'll keep my own effort to a simple yes and no list:

    Yes: NHS, abortion, gay marriage, gay adoption, free market (with reservations), capitalism (with reservations), tempered patriotism, the nation state (with reservations), outright intolerance of intolerance (religious or otherwise: no kowtowing in the face of the offence (radicalised) Muslims, say, or others may feel when subjected to reasonable mocking or criticisms - aggressive liberalism this may be called, a robustly unapologetic defence of western, Enlightenment values), free speech, super high taxes (but anyone earning less than £20,000, say, should be released from the obligation to pay), free higher education, steady (and controlled) immigration (I&#8217;m a fan of immigration), welfare state (with a mission to eradicate welfare dependence), zero tolerance of crime........

    No: death penalty, tax havens, Richard Littlejohn.

    On first impression, it appears that I may very well be utterly confused. First impressions are generally correct.

    (Oh - somebody somewhere once said that the Right are always trying to make government just small enough to fit under our bedroom doors. It may even have been on the West Wing. Anyway, I thought this was funny - and the Righties do often seem unreasonably concerned with what we're getting up to in there.)

    Hmm. I quite like all of this and feel certain I&#8217;ll have some very firm views that support your ideals just as soon as my mother and uncle have safely passed away. (The waiting is the worst. They're both still dismayingly healthy.)

    I would have a tendency to be a pacifist, as well, and feel that to settle a dispute with fists or guns is the ultimate human failing, our greatest show of weakness. How low can we go? How preposterous can we possibly make ourselves? Still, in the face of genocide or (murderously) oppressive dictators, such qualms may become a morally disgusting luxury, airily spouted by folk (like me) who have never faced anything remotely comparable in their lives. And I'll tell you something else: if I ever lived under the fear of a killing madman, I'd be right sore disappointed in the rest of the world if they didn't come and help me out. I'd sigh aggressively whensoever we next should meet.


    "If you want to intervene in Libya then you must do Syria. If you criticise a Libyan dictatorship (which you recently whined and dined in London) then you must come out against Saudi Arabian dictatorships, or Chinese dictatorships or Russian election fraud. To pick and chose the dictatorships which no longer suit you is to treat me as a fool...."

    True, and nicely said. The problem with this analysis, however, is that it may amount to nothing much more than a manifesto - or excuse - towards inaction. If we don't do everything, we should do nothing at all? Really? I can't buy into that. I share your disgust, but I'll tend to accept that the objectives of compromised politicians will only ever rarely collide with my own. Would that it were different, of course, but I'll greedily take everything I can in the meantime, whilst holding on to the painfully elusive hope that brutalised people everywhere can somehow find the means to sort out their own traumas as we indulgently wring our hands and slobber over trivia in the idle, fattened west.

    If we're not too busy ransacking their resources, of course. But that's different, we need our mobile phones and stuff. We're important. <grr>
     
    #96
  17. EspaniaCelt

    EspaniaCelt Well-Known Member

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    Some wonderfully diverse and contrasting stuff in there ... you've both got me worried. I didn't think there were others just as or maybe even more, confuzzled than me. I think it unlikely, though, that you'll ever be locked up for holding such views :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
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  18. Psychosomatic

    Psychosomatic Well-Known Member

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    Being confuzzled is where it&#8217;s at, Espania. Certainty is the enemy of all free peoples.

    I&#8217;m certain of this.
     
    #98
  19. EspaniaCelt

    EspaniaCelt Well-Known Member

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    Death and taxes?

    "He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder."
    Tad Williams
     
    #99
  20. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    I've mixed views on Tax Havens - I'm glad they are there, otherwise I'd be getting my pants taken down - but on the other hand I'm pissed off that I'm stuck on little crappy islands because the mainland is so desperately uncompetitive for business. As an example of this I'm not sure the online business in which I am currently employed could survive paying UK tax when we are competing with firms based in the likes of Hong Kong and the Philippines who already have lower costs than us.

    In terms of high personal taxation, I know a few very wealthy people who are not exactly lying in the house rolling about in their cash (in fact the single wealthiest person I can call a friend is also one of the tightest people I've met... to himself... to the point where he wouldn't even buy himself a flat screen tv) - from my experience the wealthy put more effort into seeking out further investment opportunities, rather than living the type of pleased with themselves gluttonous lifestyle you might see on a National Lottery advert.

    If a state tries to disproportionately leach onto wealth, which was has been acquired through hard work, then really they are punishing hard work.

    You see this can be firmly placed as one of those 'whatever suits your current situation' principles - considering my parents have practically nothing to leave me, and actually I think I would be quite upset if they didn't try their best to spend whatever they acquire on themselves - you only get one crack at this, screw leaving a 'jolly-up' sum to someone who is lucky enough to still be a-fricken-live.

    It also maybe shows me up as a poshist - I really don't like posh people, despite having several friends who could be described in that manner - I think I'm really just spiteful towards people who have been given the leg up I never got. Bastards.

    I think you maybe half got my point - it's the repackaging of something selfish into something moral that bugs me the most. The pretence that such military actions are for the good of the people in that country. I take your point that it's better to do something good for selfish reasons than do nothing at all - but if you are going to do something selfish and claim it is moral, such as Libya, then I think we'd all be a little bit less cynical if you chucked a few fighter jets towards a monstrous regime in Syria - sure there may not be any oil there, and it would be a pain in the arse having to use the likes of Turkish airbases, but we'd all respect you for it - and I bet at a later stage there would be a lot less domestic opposition to going in against another tyrant, who just happens to have something we want.
     
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