When we go out to one of the larger towns for a shopping expedition, we quite frequently go into one of the chain restaurants for a spot of lunch. It is quite noticeable that there will always be plenty of children sitting with one or more adults having their meal. It is something that the children are brought up to, and of course during that time they learn to react with the adults. They learn to be sociable with other people and show an interest in them as human beings. There are so many things that seem to have gone wrong in the UK. I can talk to children out here with the obvious approval of the adults that they are with, yet when I have forgotten where I am and tried the same thing over there, I have received a frosty glare. Six year olds can be allowed out to play without the fear that something dreadful will happen to them. When I was six I would walk the mile to school on my own, but today there is a fear about letting children out of sight. The teenagers that I know and meet are polite and respectful of adults and you can talk to them without getting the usual grunts from that age group. Something that I believe they have grown up with since small children. I believe that we as parents should take the lead in teaching our children, not just rely on schools to do it for us. There is a big difference in the social attitude though. The 35 hour week allows families to spend far more time together, something that the nation holds very dear. The car showrooms shut at midday on Saturday and don't open again until Monday afternoon. The supermarkets do open on a Sunday morning these days, but only really for people to buy bread. All a part of the families being given time to spend with each other. My guess is that by the time youngsters get to the age when they might have been called up it is getting rather late to try and change their social behaviour.
Norway - you describe the real world - but the law of force is what civilisation is there to replace with the rule of law. Unfortunately violence does exist and we have to recognise that but we should do everything we can to always replace violence with reasoned debate and respect.
reasoned debate and respect are things have to be worked on as early as possible in a kids life !!I think Frenchie is on to something because the kids here are well mannered and civilised possibly as a result of spending a lot more time with their parents !than say the UK!!
I am not sure where you are going. You talk about the joys of living in a wigwam, a simple life in touch with the soil so to speak. This I guess means that you would not have the opportunity to use the Internet so much. It takes a lot of people working and equipment to make that possible. Children are not "pigs of people" when they are born. The influences around them turn them that way. I do not seek to stereotype people, I simply report what I see around me. I appreciate the cities here have different problems to the rural areas, but then the pressures of living in the ghettos that many find themselves in does not improve behaviour. At least I am suggesting that families bringing up children in a certain way will improve attitudes, yet you have not suggested what to do. Could you be a bit more positive please.
Aberdude I would applaud your efforts with those kids. I did give my services to a charity when I lived in the UK that employed full time youth workers to help out within an area of the town that had more than it's fair share of problems. The council did not have the money to employ them so we did. One of our youth workers I came to know very well, and he often stated that the problems started in the home. Parents would go out and buy lottery tickets in preference to getting a decent meal in for their kids. Once again not true in all cases, but it did seem as if a lot of the time having children was a bit of a nuisance.
Aberdude it is a crying shame these sorts of services are being shut down to save a quick buck ! Definite false economy! If these kind of initiatives were properly backed then I am sure we would see less urban crime! To get a good kid , parents, teachers and peers all need to have a positive impact, take those away ,you get bored angry depressed people that will dabble in drugs ,get ensnared into crime because at the moment there is no credible alternative! What happened to kids organisations like scouts ? You never hear anything about that sort of organisation anymore!
I think it's a good idea. Growing up with my generation I think there's been a much worse attitude respect wise, and a lack of motivation to do anything. National service would help for sure, though to be honest I think I'd say 2 years is better than 1 if you're going to do it. It doesn't have to be shooting people.....but there's a lot of trades to be learnt in the Forces for sure. What I'd propose is.....finish Uni or do National service.
Aberdude you're a different feller today, your welshness rising, reasoned reasonable opinions throughout, well done. As for me I'd take a cave over all these "riches" any day. I'd love a society where we men can be men, go out hunt, come home eat and **** the wife and repeat the process throwing in building a few fires and partaking of the odd bevvy. Its only because we're taught to be disatisfied that we crave what we dont really need for happiness but we do need to keep society clicking......
Aber - you were pretty rude about me when I modded your first message on here but if you look back at it you will see that as a newcomer fan from a different club it was not a great opener. Then yesterday you still came up with what is obviously for you a belief in conspiracies etc - which is a fairly fringe belief. Today though as Aberdeen says you are a different person. You have contributed to this debate - perhaps one of the best we have had here and provoked some great reactions. I hope you will in turn accept that here there is a great allowance of differing bviews and when presented without aggression and expletives it is a good site
I am very old fashioned and believe that it is families that mould children most. In today's world people too easily abandon their kids when going gets tough. One of my bug-bears is the phrase "single parent" - well actually it takes two to create a kid and if those two stayed together kids lives would generally be better. Instead "lone parents" which just means the father normally has cleared off and does nothing for his kid expect the rest of society to carry what is actually their responsibility. I am close to going off on this one as it is a subject that does irritate me - you see lone parents on TV with their Nike and other branded clothing, with mobile phones etc bleating on about not getting help from the "government" For government read "their fellow citizens" who have their own finacnail woes probably.
... and Aber OFH and Norway are probably living in societies where the divorce rate is still lower than here so that will help make children there have better lives
No leo I think the 35hr working week plays a large part , In the uk I was regularly doing 70hr plus weeks , with travelling as well when you get home all you want to do is eat and sleep,hardly conducive to family life ! Funnily enough thats when my first wife left me! In Norway things are so orientated towards the kids ,as I imagine from what OFH says so is France , New Zealand was excellent for kids as well!
Norway - i think we all thought that and now we all appreciate that even if we disagree Aber's views are sincere and not wumming
If I make an error , I will stand up and admit it! thats one of my bugbears , people that try to cover up a mistake ,in aviation thats seriously bad news!!
This has turned out to be a good debate, with thanks to the new aberdude. The French divorce rate is lower than the UK, but so is the marriage rate. There is a long standing civil partnership arrangement that makes up for it. Children are generally made a great deal of by whole communities. We have two toddlers in our hamlet and they go to all of the inhabitants for a talk, switching effortlessly between French and English. The extended family is also more noticable here. Our neighbours frequently have visitors, most are related in some way. Last Sunday as an example Bernard who has to go into hospital shortly had his son, wife and grandchildren come all of the way down from Paris, 3.5 hours each way, just to have dinner with him.
