But technically what did Nico do wrong? He moved once to the white line at the edge of the circuit, he doesn't have to leave a cars length unless he makes another move. Admittedly he was very very agressive doing that one move to Alonso and Lewis, but technically he did nothing wrong. If Lewis changed direction instead of going on the concrete to overtake Nico I reckon the eyes of the people on Nico would of been lesser. But I heard he made 2 moves with Alonso?
Crowding someone off the track isn't allowed either, he's a dirty ****ing bastard, but I'm not surprised considering who his team-mate is, it rubbed off on his last team mate too (Massa). An absolutely shocking decision from the Stewards.
Video of Hamilton and Alonso's attempted overtakes on Rosberg can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17803868 (don't know how to embed yet) Confirms my suspicion that Alonso was alongside Rosberg when Rosberg initially comes across. I think he then backs out of it slightly but is still forced onto the sand because he's still at least partially alongside. Rosberg on Hamilton is something more of a victimless crime as Hamilton overtakes him regardless and crucially is still in the slipstream when he makes the decision to go off the track.
Well if Roseberg has acted within the rules (which I can see technically is correct even though I think it was an unsporting gesture to say the least) then Lewis infringed the rules by overtaking outside of the track boundaries. Someone suggested that he wasn't shortening the track but it gave him track position into the next turn, so he gained an advantage. For me the whole thing stinks and after the Schuey situation in Monza 2011, Schuey on Rubens (when he tried to run him into the pit wall) and Vettle on Button in Japan 2011, the rules were meant to refelect the changes required by the drivers. Not sure that has happened?
rule 20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
i personally think rosberg should have been done twice for dangerous driving. haven't seen numerous replays yet, but my initial impression was that rosberg was driving dangerously. he can't plead ignorant either, b/c he did it twice. think about it, if there had been wet grass or a wall there, hamilton and alonso would be in hospital right now. they were both lucky they could still go off the track and keep control of the car.
Rosberg has taken a turn for the worse after that win went to his head, you cannot win races driving like that boy. If there was gravel where Hamilton and Alonso had to make a move, he would have been given a drive through.
Some exceptional driving in both the best and worst senses: Rosberg's defending was not clever but Hamilton still passing despite being run off the track was reminiscent of the heroics from a bygone era.
I think Rosberg was just about OK with what he did, but I can see the argument for a penalty too. I think the problem the swards have is that in the recent past they have let this type of driving go by without anything happening, Lewis weaving in China as an example. I’m sure that Rosbergs defence was videos of recent incidents that didn’t receive any penalty. I think Alonso’s tweet gives us an insight into the minds of a driver for future races, and it’ll be interesting to see how bad it gets before something is done about it. I’m not the biggest fan of Lewis, but even I think that he would have been very unlucky to get any type of penalty for leaving the track to make his overtake, he really didn’t have much choice, and in this case I think he did the right thing.
Cheers Spursguru. I'd literally just made a separate thread for these incidents by duplicating posts in the race thread so I've merged the two. I've stuck your post in the OP as well.
Hi All, The incidents are being discussed on the bbc website at the moment, so I thought I would try and get your informed opinions regarding the Rosberg crowding Hamilton and Alonso, and Hamiltons "passing off track". Imo I think Rosberg veered quite suddenly, and that (as happens with so many F1 rules) whilst it looked wrong (RB flexi wing hmmm) by the letter of the rules it was ok. And the stewards were right not to punish Lewis, not because of the reasons they gave (as shown in the link) but because he didn't actualy pass him on track, but into the corner. Plus Vettel made a number of of track passes last year than no one mentioned. Here is the bbc link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2012/04/unanswered_questions_for_rosbe.html Here is the Lewis incident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLcoASK9ew What do you think?
Well if I was Nico's lawyer with regard to this situation I know 100% he would get off scot free with these key areas I could exploit. 1:He made 1 direction to defend his line, done to the letter of the law. 2:Where does it say in the rules how hard you are allowed to defend that line, none of course. 3:My client hasn't actually broke any rules so what is the crime? 4: Define "too aggresive", it's not in the rule book, is the limit to defending only 1/4 turn of the wheel? half? 80%? this was again never mentioned in the rules so it's the FIA's failure to clarify to my client. 5:He did not squeeze out anybody as video evidence shows as they were behind him at the time he made the 1 move. 6:He did leave a cars length for Lewis and Alonso, on the other side of the track yet one of them put my client in danger by overtaking him off the track. So by the book of the FIA law, my client has done nothing wrong, Lewis Hamilton has though. If my client gets a penalty for not breaking any laws does that mean Lewis will get a season ban for breaking them? I reckon they didn't penalise Nico because they would of have to give Lewis a even worse punishment for overtaking off the track. Basically I reckon they spared Lewis that day by not punishing Nico. Also with regard to Vettel overtaking Button outside the track in Australia was legal at the time since it was a sort of runoff to prevent collisions. This year it was stopped and to my knowledge nobody exploited it. Rules are rules, opinion is just...... Well opinion!
Agreed on the Nico bit, but lewis doesn't actualy pass him till they are both on track, and entering the corner. There are no rules about leaving the track un-intentionaly (I don't think?)
The rule in question would be gaining an advantage by going off the track. If he went off and never got past then it would of never been bought up, but in the rule book he did in a way.....well cheat! He got past Nico by leaving the track on the concrete and gained an advantage when he should of done what Alonso did. That part of the track was never intended to be used for that kind of purpose as a extension for overtaking or racing on, it could of ended so much more badly if he hit that barrier. In theory the FIA could of slapped a 25 second penalty on Lewis and it would of been in the rules to do so. But with Nico there's nothing in the rule book that he broke so that's why he got off Scott free. But then again the stewards make up rules as they go every year!
For me the rules and understanding are too vague. My opinion for what its worth is as follows: Rosberg's moves were within the rules but unsporting and potentially dangerous. Rosberg move was deemed a continuous move (although it was very direct) and was 1 move to defend his line. If Lewis or Alonso and then ducked back the other way and Rosberg moved to defend, then I think this would have been classed as 2 moves? Lewis followed Rosbergs line and continued the momentum and overtook off the track, that is a breach of the rules. Just because we have had examples in the past does not make it right or acceptable. I understand in this case that the Stewards felt it would be harsh to penalise Lewis if they had let Rosberg off, but for me that is where the Stewards are letting themselves down. Regardless of whether we like/resepect/agree with the rules they are there to be implemented - the next Stewards may not have the same opinion in which case there will be uproar! With the speed diffentials now so apparant with DRS, KERS & different tyres whats to stop any driver catching a defending driver who has blocked the inside approach to the next corner and taking to the extra width of the track/runoff but outside the lines of the racing circuit and claiming they were forced off the track? I know it is an extreme example but the principle now is in place. Rosberg moved to defend his line (which was stated as legal and within the rules), Lewis continued his attack, took to the run off area and made his pass outside the confines of the racing circuit - which was also deemed legal and within the rules. He also had the inside line to the next corner! For me this will open up a can of worms over the next few races with drivers being over agressive in defence and drivers taking to the run off areas of the track to make passes or have advantage into a corner - claiming that they were forced to! For me, neither are within the spirit of the sport!
The problem is not Rosberg. The problem is the run off areas. If they were grass then nobody would attempt an overtake thier would they? I agree with the tarmac run offs for safety but they should be behind a large grass or gravel barrier around the tracks.
or something really abrasive that'll take something out of the tyres. As for Rosberg, to me it looked like he knew what he did and knew he'd gone to far so he tried to pretend for the next few laps that the violent swerve to the left after leaving the first chicane was his normal racing line.
Rosberg did this with Alonso and got away with it somehow. On Lewis overtaking off the track, he took the long way round and would've picked up all kinds of crap on his tyres, if he wants to do that it's his call. If Rosberg has a problem with it there's nothing to stop him continuing to defend off the race track, it's the same for everyone. I don't see it opening up a can of worms because there's almost nowhere on the calendar where it's quicker to run off the track, Ascari and turn 4 in Australia are the only two places I can think of and it's allowed there. All this crap about two moves and four wheels and all the rest of it is massively frustrating, decisions should be made subjectively, sitting there trying to pin down an infringement against a list of rules is where they're going wrong, I thought the whole point of having driver stewards was to prevent the need to do this. They should hand out guidelines for wheel to wheel stuff, and tell the drivers what is likely to incur a penalty, and the stewards' decision should be final.
