It's Hamilton for me. He's a natural and aggressive racing driver who has shown remarkable overtaking abilities throughout his career, except perhaps when frustration gets the better of him. Some of his GP2 races were awesome, especially when coming through the field. Saying that, it seems irreverent to pick out one individual for a particular ability from a field of the world's best drivers. I'm just happy when we get a decent amount of close racing, as in China
A very good observation, Nh-f1. I agree that the McLaren team-mates have both developed as a consequence of studying (and respecting) each other. Great post, Slicks. I'm very pleased you've used your memory, rather than been overly influenced by one comparatively lacklustre season.
I don't understand how looking back at Lewis' overtaking skills in GP2 can even consider adding it to a F1 degree. The field was full of hacks and none of them have gone off to win the WDC apart from Lewis. GP2 was just a promotional stunt by Bernie and Flavio to get the money in if the driver had the backing. Piquet Jnr, Lewis biggest rival and he lasted 2 years in F1 and got destroyed by Alonso. Glock, I think there's a reason why he is down in Marussia for the 3rd year running, he was beat both years running by Trulli in Toyota and Ambrosio beat him last year. Di Grassi 1 year in F1 in a bottom team. Petrov, got destroyed by Kubica and was being beat by Heidfeld who came in last minute. And the rest I cant be bothered to mention! I dont doubt Lewis ability but some of the hype that goes around with his GP2 days is just silly to try and say he can spin off and catch up the whole field and overtake them all still because he just can?
It still requires skill to get past slow drivers. Sounds odd I know, but slow drivers are more unpredictable, so you've got to pull of moves they won't expect, and therefore have no chance of defending. Undermining Hamilton's performances in GP2 is like undermining Jason Plato's fantastic race in Race 3 at Donnington on Sunday. He went 17th to 2nd in around 20 laps. Those drivers are some of the best of the business, and he wiped the floor with them. He probably could have won if it werent for that whining imbecile Gordon Sheddon. He was so slow at the end of the race and, as Plato said, braking in all the wrong places. On another note, regarding Hamilton's 2011 season, its blown so out of proportion. All drivers will have a season or two in their career where it doesn't seem to go right for them. Others drivers may have had their 'bad performace' season when the spotlight wasnt on them, and Hamilton is probably the only driver to witness such pressure on a bad season. I'm glad he's had his bad season, in one where another driver was unbeatable, and now he can be at his best again.
The best overtaker doesn't hit 3 people in one race trying to overtake. GP2 is about GP2, Hamilton isn't even the best overtaker in his team
Must of been a relief to get out of the 2011 season nh-f1, shame to see quality drivers having a **** season but I guess that's the name of the game when both of our guys were or current youngest WDC's in the world. People will spot every little weakness and amplify it by a thousand and I suppose I have done my fair share in the past with regard to that and actually regret it now. They're the youngest and least experienced in that group of 6 WDC's
Right now there is no clear best and they all have their own merits. In the end i voted for Button thanks to the lethality he has currently. They're calculated moves that almost never go wrong and the previous weakness of sitting behind cars to long has been corrected. He's pulled off some stunning moves. That said Alonso is similar and Hamilton can never be discounted even he did make some mistakes last year. Any choice from one of them is one i would struggle to argue against.
I think Miggins has a solid point. Hamilton's reputation as the best overtaker in the business was forged back when F1 existed under abject aerodynamic oppression and tyres that were for life, not just for Christmas. Overtaking was physics-ally and, therefore, mentally accepted to be all but impossible. In that situation, a defender might have appreciated that Hamilton believed the manoeuvre was his one and only opportunity to get past and so he would not back off. If the defender wanted to finish the race he had to take the do-or-die lunge up the inside or the cut across the bows that Hamilton was offering. Now the overtaker has many advantages in the form of tyres, KERS, DRS, potentially a stronger engine, a better car for the current conditions, rules that prevent blocking entirely, etc., etc., etc. The defender, therefore, will expect the attacker to understand that this manoeuvre is not the one and only opportunity to get by and, if he squeezes the attacker going into a corner, the attacker will back out knowing he will have another opportunity in a few corners or on another lap. The problem is that, unlike Button or Alonso et al., Hamilton has no exit plan when he commits to the manoeuvre. He hasn't suddenly got worse than he was. He just should have got better. Everyone else did.
That's a perfectly reasonable perspective Genji. However, each of your windows can be looked through from two directions: [1] Back when F1 existed under abject aerodynamic oppression and tyres that were for life, not just for Christmas; overtaking was mentally accepted to be all but impossible. If one person manages it more than all others, the simplest logic steers the conclusion that he is better at it than his peers. Therefore this is one of the strongest arguments in his favour. [2] Now the overtaker has many advantages in the form of tyres, KERS, DRS; a better car for the current conditions; and rules that prevent blocking almost entirely. Clearly this encourages overtaking, where previously, most considered it nigh-on impossible (as per your first point). It has therefore tended to negate the advantage held by those who previously managed without the subsequent advantages. Anyone who previously managed, now finds his competitors empowered (somewhat artificially, by comparison) to do what they previously did less. The effect is clear: the previous advantage held by one who managed anyway, has become normalised - and therefore reduces the possibility of his appearing exceptional or outstanding. [3] Although I partially agree, I also disagree in part; as I hope will become clear. You have correctly generalised what he tended to do last season. During 2011, Hamilton's overtaking 'fault' was highlighted when in close quarters with others. It was that he tended to over-estimate the ability of some other drivers (one in particular). This was indeed a (not previously manifest) fault: he was not sufficiently circumspect to allow for anything less than he would expect of himself in the same situation. This season - though still at an early stage - suggests an altered perspective to make more allowance for the errors of others (from his own perspective). In my opinion, he has now taken this different approach; and the reason may not surprise you: he's studied Button! - Analysing his team-mate's overtaking has put his own ability into perspective for the long-haul of a Grand Prix; whereas before, he tended to throw himself, kart style, straight in at every tiny opportunity as if he would never get another. [4] You say he hasn't suddenly got worse but that he should have improved, as everyone else did. Well, I would suggest that this newer perspective is indeed an improvement. He has applied a bit of intelligence to his ability (as per my point 3). He has had to accept that there has been a normalisation of overtaking; and that further opportunities are far more likely to come than before. Furthermore, perceived improvements in others may be a direct consequence of increased opportunity! - - - o0o - - - In this new era, where F1 has placed so much emphasis on overtaking, it should be clear that it is now far more difficult for any one driver to stand-out and grab the attention of the viewer, as being exceptional. The differences have become far more subtle.
Did you not watch the 4 years before 2011? Hamilton is the best, followed by Alonso, Webber, Button Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e using Tapatalk 2
Take into considertaion Lewis had KERS in 2009 and the f-duct car in 2010 to assist with overtaking those years. Lewis is a great overtaker, but I dont think he's the best until I see him do it without a Mercedes engine backing him up in the straights.
To some extent, you may have a point about 2009; but the Mercedes engine is virtually irrelevant to what counts on the straight, with regard to overtaking. As you have correctly pointed out: aerodynamic efficiency is far more important.
Silver, take a look at the straight-line speed traps. McLaren are rarely at the top, so your Mercedes engine theory is not really relevant. If he did it in a Red Bull-Renault, the argument would be (pre 2012!) he was in the best car so would be expected to overtake easily. I don't think God himself (either Schuey or that mystical person in the sky) could do much with a Caterham, HRT or Marrusia, so what car would you like to see him in!?
Schumacher is the best at overtaking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgWHIql4crw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiBXFaTCq3g
In China the 10 fastest engines were, Ferrari Ferrari Ferrari Ferrari Renault Ferrari Renault Renault Renault Renault Bit of a surprise to be honest but there we go.
The simplest logic steers the conclusion that he was better (the best) for a particular set of conditions. The conditions have changed. Yes - in fact, not just appearing exceptional, but being exceptional. Hamilton's approach is a disadvantage in today's environment, where it was an advantage before 2011. I can see that side of the argument but personally I think it's more likely that he just hasn't got to grips with the change in the mentality of overtaking. It's not that they lack the ability but that they're no longer a pushover. It is too early in 2012 to make any assessments but thus far he's been rather unspectacular. We shall watch his progress with great interest... I do agree with that - it's not that people who criticise his 2011 performance have forgotten what he achieved before, more that we acknowledge that the (overtaking-in-F1-) world changed in terms of attitude and opportunities and Hamilton didn't. He certainly stood out and grabbed the attention of the viewer as being exceptional in 2011.
Australia top 10: Ferrari Mercedes Mercedes Mercedes Ferrari Mercedes Renault Renault Ferrari Ferrari Malaysia top 10: Mercedes Renault Mercedes Renault Ferrari Mercedes Mercedes Mercedes Mercedes Renault What's that on points if it was the same system as driver points?
