Whats the difference between Liverpool fans defending Suarez over the claims against him and United fans defending Young. To some both are guilty, to other neither are. Others think one is guilty and one is innocent. On Suarez I know hes not a racist, hes stupid and needs to learn more about the english game but thats not always possible and I am sure he wont make such a silly mistake again. It also seems hes a nice guy off the pitch but what he did was wrong and he was rightly punished for it. Was he overly punished. YES. Youngs punishment whether right or wrong has already been handed down, sometime between now and the end of the season he will be fouled but will not get the penalty. Thats his punishment, the refs will be biased against him. In a way this causes the players to over react to tackles and thus a nasty circle begins. To combat diving you need to start right at the point that can do something about it. The referee. However diving is dealt with it must be the ref who does so as if you leave it down to a panel to review decisions the ref fails to spot or gets wrong you open a can or worms for everything.....
Only on cases where there is 100% clearly no contact can this be a case, even though young dived blatantly 2 weeks in a row, Carroll done same, also 2 newcastle players in the same game. Bale and Rooney and the list can go on. retrospective bans like this will piss FIFA off too, they will tell ye ot stop it as with the SFA cos they make the rules. The prem is riddled with divers, only top teams then its highlighted. Young has been a serial diver for years now but who noticed at Villa. This time though the ref should have noticed young swinging his right boot into the defender's foot and doing a fish flop, pathetic dive, I honestly thought he was running over to book young
If Suarez does what young did the weekend he'd be booked 9 out of 10 times and thats what pisses me off
Nani had this issue not too long back. In this instance I think its a little bit down to the fact they are flair players.
I agree Young is not afalir player Nani was a diving ****e too, I think that also might have not helped I think big andy just thought there would be contact and looked a mug when there wasn't, I really do not see this guy as the quick witted fooler of refs
With Young there is video evidence, and lots of it. With Suarez their was no evidence. Just one person's word against another. Can I just say. I have never seen a Liverpool fan defend a player for diving. I personally find it embarrassing to see.
Charlie Adam v United? Every liverpool fan said he was fouled.... Steven Gerrard v Athletico Madrid, Sheffield United, AC Milan, Blackburn Rovers Seem to recall some of the above incidents were defended to the hilt.
I simply beleive diving is bad for the game and there should be a citing rule as per rugby where the opposing team can cite a player for diving or violent stuff and the FA MUST investigate there and then, there needs to be a citing officer per game appointed. The simple tenent of the rule is not that the rugby ref is a blundering idiot but that he is merely a human being capable of missing something and redress can be made using the easily available video. In football a ref is like a pope, infallible especially when proven wrong it seems as the fa come out even stronger when something si proven... until ferguso nspeaks whereupo nthe ref is summarally dropped to the championship mind. If for example pepe was cited by barca, or busquest by real they would think twice before engaging in the actions they do take... newkie would probably have not have gotten to cite carroll as the ref o nthe day made a clear ruling and that ruling stands.... however if duped ala young then action can be taken. in other words if a ref does nothing you can get justice, if a ref mades and error you can get justice but if a ref makes a correct call but you do not agree well tough he did see it and dealt as he saw fit. It works in rugby, why not in football... cam as the video evidence... it is merely opinion and stubborness IMO.
Steven Gerrard v Athletico Madrid, Sheffield United, AC Milan, Blackburn Rovers Athletico madrid - who defended him over that? Sheff Utd - he vaulted over the keeper and lost his balance - by definition that IS a pen, rarely though they're given. Gattuso - even he admitted there was contact (more than Young's or Rooney's against Campbell, for instance). Blackburn? In the same match he was flattened by Samba when clean through and the ref bottled it and waved play on, so your theory about Young's comeuppance may come true. Probably not at OT with Webb though.... Best (worst?) diver for Liverpool? John Aldridge, without a doubt. Most fouled without getting a quarter of the pens he deserved? John Barnes. Viv Anderson grabbed him round the waist once in the penalty box and the ref waived play on - in front of the Kop too!
I did a while back but tbh its in the past. LFC fans disagree with every bit against suarez but the bit that says it doesnt mean hes a racist....you all liked that bit. Hmmmm, wonder why... i didn't agree with any of the report (least of all the various acceptances of the inconsistencies in Evra's evidence and the assumption, based upon nothing more than his answering questions in a language he barely knew, that Suarez was some shifty Dago who couldn't be trusted. But YOU claimed this inquiry proved he was racist. Those few of us who actually read the full 115 pages of the report (which doesn't include any of the national hacks such as Lawton, Samuel, Holt, Ladyboy and so forth) knew damn well it said the opposite. As did Evra himself, btw. Though he probably denies this and how many times it was said by now.
We also liked the bit where the expert linguists said that Suarez's explanation of his meaning was probably correct. Perhaps you missed that bit, because the FA panel and the idiot press did. Hmmmm, wonder why...?
IMO, any obvious dive should be punished with a match ban irrelevant of whether they're are past offender or not. Between six and eight games should do it. Any dive would have to be 100% clear though!
I'v changed my mind. Repeating diving should not be a match ban. Just diving once, in a key area (in and around penalty areas etc) should be a match ban. Whether they get a pen/FK or not. Incidents still have to be reviewed after the game to decide whether to give the ban whether the ref spots it or not. Repeated diving in the other, less key areas of the pitch can be a match ban.
A simple way to help sort it out would be for refs to actually give a foul when it's a foul rather than players having to go to ground to be awarded the foul. If a ref can't recognise a foul without the player going to ground they shouldn't be refs in the first place.
This would help, but I think that too is hard to judge. There's so much pushing and pulling going on, often on the blind side, it's still the same problem for the ref- deciding what is and what isn't a foul. Retrospective judgement has the advantage of not actually changing the ref's decisions about free kicks, pens etc., but still punishing obvious offenders. It does have to be sufficient punishment however, to hurt the club in some way, otherwise they'll just think of it as a hit worth taking.
True. I know what I suggested wasn't the answer, just a step in the right direction, and as you pointed out it's not as black and white as it may seem. I'm personally not one for this retrospective ban suggestion, too many variables to take into account to justify handing out bans in my opinion. Also if someone dives and gets a penalty the other team may lose due to this then the following week the team that dived might be playing the losing team's main rivals and have their best players suspended therefore giving the team on the end of the dive two negatives to deal with. That's just an example of one (of many) repercussions that could be a direct result of it. It's a tough call that's for sure.
I'm not sure about a retrospective ban as such, but what about some sort of penalty point system similar to the yellow card one? Accumulate enough then the punishment kicks in. I haven't really thought this through much, so I'm prepared to get slated,but I think it might be better to punish the club as opposed to individuals. I said earlier I think only Draconian measures will sort it, so perhaps point deduction for an accumulation of penalty points? Then clubs and other players might put pressure on serial divers to stay on their feet.
