I think we think of our non-league captains and apply them to the premiership. I'm not sure that kind of captain really exists at the top-level, at least not anymore.
I don't get the comment in bold? We're talking about Tony Adams and Vieira - and great captains in general.
Magic Man I get what you are trying to say. Adams was captain of under Wenger yes but the 1st teams were not the same, Lehmann, Toure, Lauren to name but a few new 1st teamers.
I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse here or just taking the term a little bit too literally. But 'there's no debate' about Vieria being a great captain, is a term of reference to suggest that it's almost unanimously accepted that he was one of the best captains we've had, certainly in recent history. That he is compared to Tony Adams, is testament to this really.
I think BTDM was just referring to the fact there is a debate - with five having given a view so far and 2 of those 5 questioning whether he was indeed immense. That's not almost unanimous. Overall though it wasnt the main thrust of the initial discussion - I am more interested on whether people believe this problem Petit is talking about, and many on here have in the past, is something we are addressing/fixing... or do we need the Adams/Vieira type player...
Semantics. Vieira was great captain for us. That's undeniable. Whether he was as effective a captain as Adams was, is open to debate.
That's not the point! Petit has raised an issue that has been talked about on here too. That led to a discussion about the lack of a captain. I'd like to get some views on whether our current team lacks a true captain and whether it would address the issue he is talking about. Or perhaps his views are wrong... or maybe RVP is the man, or Wilshere, or someone else...or maybe the recent bounce back from the defeat at QPR shows we have what we need without an Adams/Vieira type character... You kind of derailed the discussion by picking up on a secondary point.
don't you ****ing me Anyway, there's no derailment. Just an acknowledgement that Vieria was an great captain for us and far from a 'questionable' one As for RVP - I think he makes a decent captain, brilliant player, great attitude, leads by example. He's not in the same mould as Vieira or Adams who would literally pick a game up by the scruff of it's neck and dictate it's outcome, but I think he's much better than everyone we've had since Vieira. I think Szczesny will become a future Arsenal captain - and he's got all the attributes to be another 'Adams' type of leader
I agree on Szczesny, but I wonder whether a goalkeeper is the right player to have as captain. Besides it might take him a few years. That leaves us short of a real leader on and off the pitch. I feel that Wenger has used the captaincy as a bit of a tool to retain players in the past, and I'd like to see the role take on more meaning. I did think Arteta, but listening to him he seems like too nice a guy for the job. The other issue we have is its not really feasible to take it off RVP anyway, so if he stays he'll need to lead the team.
Wenger once said that he preferred defenders and goalkeepers as captains as they were able to instruct from the back - forward, rather than being involved in play facing the oppo goal. I agree about Wenger using the captain role as a tool to try and retain players (it didn't really work) but I think RVP was made captain because of his experience and leadership qualities. If you ever read any of RVP's programme notes, he usually makes very astute assessments of our club, players, media etc. He's a pretty savvy customer. I think Szczesny will make an excellent captain one day though.
If half of the things you've written on here were in our match programmes, people would be forgiven for thinking you were on the wind up mate . .
