Arrogance should be earned with sustained success over a period of time. While our lowly position attracts revenge for our own such arrogance it is amusing to see other fans speedily adopt it by coming "really really really high in the league" or above a once great team every-now and then. By God I'd rather be an deposed king than an over gilded town mayor!
Obviously I hit a nerve. There a numerous reasons why fans may be bitter towards another team. That team may have stolen/tapped up/undervalued your best player when they signed him. Said former player is doing much better at his new club than when he was with you. A former player/manager had nothing to say about your club but bad things. A rival team with more success. A rival team who thrashed you. (Ask the mackems after the 5-1) Laughed at you when you got relegated. (Villa) Fair enough, not a lot of people like Liverpool, but when fans act bitter towards a team with no real substance behind it, it just comes across as ridiculous. My the way, is it really alpha-male to mock ones education when they come across a bit...well stupid? Thought women were capable of doing that too, at least that's what 50% of being in a relationship is about...being able to take being called "stupid". Personally thought the alpha-male route was more about mum jokes and flexing virtual muscles on an internet forum.
Arrogance shouldn't be mistaken for wanting a team to do well. Oh my god we want top 4 again...we should be ashamed of ourselves.
I find nothing wrong with arrogance as long as it can be backed up.. Arrogance is part of the mental warfare . Look at United. They win most of their games because they are the better team but they win leagues because they win the game/s they never should, purely because of who they are. (I mean that in the context of the other team is beaten before they play not in relation to any conspiracy theory) We at LFC find ourselves in a difficult position because we hold the same attitude as fans based on the past success of previous teams and to be fair to us (compared to some of these other teams such as Spurs or Newcastle) a consistent trickle of the main trophies in our lean league years. Now we place ourselves out there for ridicule from United, Arsenal or Chelsea fans because of our League form but to have Spurs & even more so the likes of Newcastle & Fulham supporters thinking they can bite because of One or two years league standings? Maybe if they'd won those trophies they were above us in. But we as LFC supporters don't (And this proof of our arrogance or delusion lol ) want champions league qualification as a badge in of itself which they seem to do. We want it because we believe once there we can win it no matter what and because of that arrogant belief we have (with the glaring exception of the league) done exactly that in recent history. Arrogance is the extra 10% we just have to find the missing 30% in between lol.....
I doubt there's many Newcastle fans who are mocking Liverpool for trophies or history Dirtyfrank. We are very aware of our own failings and if we had the option of swapping our season for yours would, i suspect every fan, chose to do so. Football is about winning things and this season you've won the League cup and are in the semi-final of the FA Cup. Is that a good season for you? Reading you forum you get the distinct impression it isn't and yet I'd make you favourites for the FA cup (Tottenham/ Chelsea have other distractions and you seem to have the hoodoo over Everton) and have a trophy in your back pocket. It seems as though alot is being taken for granted, that the possibility of two successes out of the three trophies you entered for will be yours and yet the league position is talked about ad infinitum. In my opinion, and feel free to shoot this down as its just my opinion, there is a lack of humility from Liverpool fans at the moment. Following Newcastle beating Liverpool last week i still had to listen to a group of reds telling me how you were going to finish above us next season and are a much bigger and better club (i live and work in Liverpool). So what. We don't see ourselves as bigger or better, we don't think we have a divine right to achieve things, we simply love how we are playing at the moment - credit where its due. Liverpool have some tweeks to make and will, i'm sure, come back stronger next season but you flaws have been in your play not in bad luck and poor refereeing. Remember one thing: If Newcastle win the League Cup next season and finish 17th in the league we'll be out celebrating, football is about winning things.
Haslam: I think we're kind of agreeing. We (LFC fans) in general are maybe "arrogant" in our expectations because of our "history". other fans see this as us believing we deserve to win automatically simply because we're LFC. As you have stated, if you read the majority of posts on this board, this year for the most part that nice superior attitude we'd all love to enjoy (because it means you've won) has been replaced with frustration. Like being shown the promised land then stuck on an island just off it for two decades. The arrogance tends to re-emerge in defensive responses to baiting. Which then leaves other fans believing we think we're better than everyone else: bit circular. I'm maybe referencing the very few Newcastle fans that have done a bit of strutting outside of the current accomplishments or maybe just baiting? ? as you have obviously come across an attitude from a small number of LFC fans that we can not afford to display on league form without risking mockery. For the record; I'm happy as a fan we have a trophy. I'm HOPEFUL that we can add another. And I'm FAITHFUL that we can compete in the league next year. As for all the teams round us; I really hope Newcastle continue at this level as the more teams at the old "top 4" level, the better the league to watch. And as I've said on another thread, the fact that you have put two fingers up to everybody who wrote you off is great to see. Sentiment dips slightly if talking about Spurs just because I've come across this arrogance a bit more often on here which is a Shame because I like how they play. Use to Chelsea & Arsenak being up around and usually above us recently lol. League says we aren't competing with City or United. Actually league this year says we aren't competing with any of you!
Fair enough Frank i think we are mostly agreeing there. The way Newcastle have done this season i can genuinely say i'd be supporting most teams in our position even if i was otherwise a neutral (ie. If Swansea, Norwich, Fulham, etc were challenging for 4th spot i'd be supporting them as its a nice riposte to the critics and Sky pundits). I think its a long route back for Liverpool, but it says alot that you've never been out of the top 8 in the Premiership (i think that's right) and you'll be back up there in time. I guess as a Newcastle fan I'm almost the exact opposite end of the scale. I hear alot from Liverpool fans about how they DESERVE success because of their history whereas i pretty much see it the other way around. If the guy next-door wins the lottery then he deserves to win it less in future. Newcastle get 50,000+ through the gates and have had 43 years without any silverware - surely we deserve something more!!! Maybe next year you can have 4th in the league and we'll have a cup thanks (as if 4th is 'ours' to give away...)
Ha once you get it it automatically becomes yours to give away We just can't remember where we put ours...London somewhere I think...
Haslam No-one's going to try and shoot you down for expressing a reasonable opinion. I'd just like to reinforce frank's post in my own words. I don't think we have a god-given right to success, it's just that when you have a history of it you aspire to regain those heights. My personal opinion is that our league position is a failure. Don't get me wrong, I celebrated the CC win like a good 'un and will do the same with the FA cup if we make it,- I still see them as compensation however. Compensation at worst. At best, they are an indication that we are still a decent side with the potential to get better. We haven't finished lower than 8th position in 50 years- a level of consistency no other club comes near, and we're not ready to consign ourselves to continuous mid-table mediocrity just yet. As for Newcastle, I'm pleased you're doing well because I like to see a team play their way to success rather than just try and buy it. I was one of many who thought you'd fall away, but you've kept right up there. So good luck, keep going and make fourth. And we'll regroup in the summer and stuff you next season.
saintanton don't you guys stuff us every season? Anfield is surely our worst ground to go to, in the last couple of years we've had results away to chelsea (4-3 win), Arsenal (1-0 win) and Man Utd (1-1 draw) and for a long time (until we got relegated) Tottenham were 6 points a season for us but i can't remember the last time we got a result at Anfield. We'll have to see about it at St James though, we may have made up for the 5-1 loss over the last two games (2-0 and 3-1 wins for us) but could be a tight one. Alot of water under the bridge between now and then, we may be having to 'fit you in' between trips to Barcelona and Milan.
Well isn't your own team living proof that it isn't really that long? In August, you'd have put Newcastle midtable at best, while you'd have put us somewhere in the top 6.
Fair point Suarezlfc. Your comment is absolutely correct, even after a good start i would still have had Newcastle mid-table come May, I think most of our fans were counting how many points we were from 40 up until January! I guess i still don't really see us as being a top 6 side, I'm unconvinced we'll be up here next season and i think most Newcastle fans would 'settle' for 7th next year and some consolidation. I also think the aim for Liverpool is to be challenging for the league and wonder-season though Newcastle have had we're a long way off that. You may/ should get into the top 6 soon but i think unless FSG are willing to spend silly money (and i don't see why they should really) it'll take a handful of years to get back up to challenging for the title. So long as there's progress i think most Liverpool fans would be willing to be a touch patient.
