tbh I will give grumpygit his dues. He actually talks a lot of sense. From my young days as a Gills fan, we have always been a Division 3, Division 4 side. The truth be known we spent a period in the Championship and with it came a new generation of fans. However, grumpy, Windyrog, Lord Sondes, like myself realise the reality that is we are a lower league side. Like all football fans we have hopes, we have dreams and you can wish all you like but eventually we are all led back to reality. I hurt like everyone today but I think we should listen to the old wise men, after all it's everyone's choice at the end of the day, Leeds, Crawley or Gillingham... Now I am going to go away and have a good cry, then pick myself back up for Saturday and the Saturday after that and again and again - that's the real life, not a Chairmans dream.
i would give 1 more season, make or break for him with no arguments! a good no. 2 would be on my shopping list, the tony pulis/peter taylor years treated us to some great memories. & sometimes i think we expect too much (me included), sadly we dont have a jack walker or a mr chelsea. we never do things the easy way & this season is no exception, get down & get dirty & believe in ourselves LEAGUE 2 CHAMPS NEXT YEAR!
I like many on here have been supporting the the Gills predominantly as a basement division club and appreciate that our time in the championship was a case of us punching significantly above our weight. However, I don't feel that the past should be an excuse to accept mediocracy in terms of management, playing style and success. While I largely agree with Grumpy et al regarding a generation of "spoilt" Gills with different expectation, I do strongly disagree with Windyrog's "let just stick with what we have got" sentiment. While I agree that stability is a key factor for many successful clubs to stick with someone reeks of a lack of ambition to me. I would be in favour of Hess being given another season if the team have shown signs of improvement, to me this debatable, however I was listening to Graham Taylor on R5L (a man I have a lot of time for) and he said that it takes three seasons for a manager to fairly judged, so I am willing to give Hess another term, but unless we show significant improvement in terms of performances and result I think he should go.
I think if we are not in the top three by end of November, then the manager should step aside. This would allow an incoming coach to take advantage of the January transfer window. If Hessie cannot deliver this target by the deadline date, then I doubt he ever will. Obviously this would have to be agreed in private between him and the Chairman in the summer. I feel this would get the whole of the Management Team sharply focused, and hopefully produce the desired result at last.
Irregardless of whether we think he should be here next season, I have very little doubt in my mind that he will be. He's too proud to walk away from this job and Scally has invested too much money in him and the squad to warrant a change of heart and an inevitable pay off. Personally, I've been passive and backed Hessy to the hilt but the last few weeks have done it for me. How (and the players must take the brunt of this criticism) they could not get motivated for such a game as yesterday absolutely astounds me. I know the game isn't played on paper, but we were at home to a team in 20th place and we didn't look like we wanted to win. No urgency, lack of ideas, too many players letting the game pass them by. The substitutions were necessary but we didn't accommodate them well at all, how many times did we change formations and switch personnel around in the second half? It screams inconsistency. Much like this season as a whole, really.
Sorry T-T-S-N this post makes no sense at all ( like a lot of mine - before you all say anything -anyway it wasn't my fault the team lost ) just still feeling low after yesterdays rubbish ! - couldn't resist tweaking your post. Oh sh**, what have I done - I must be ill - I've only gone and bought two tickets for the Oxford game ! - and if you think that's bad - I'm now beginning to write just like Hoadie ! - quick somebody get me to a doctor.- too late - I'm a Gills fan- I'm afraid it's terminal.
I have not suggested that we accept what we have got. I may stand by the manager for another season, but please re read my post re the team. We are not the leagues leading scorers for nothing.......it is part of the midfield and back line that needs adjustment and replacing. This is heightened by the fact that probably our player of the season is still having to play out of position. I'm with BRB, Iffy and to a lesser extent (as he got my 'message' wrong) BSG. However....'kneejerk' lenny........I cannot see it your way, but it is your choice and I respect that.
Windyrog, sorry if I misrepresented you fella, but I think it was the "better the devil you know" comment that did it. But sometimes you need to take a leap of faith or a calculated risk in a new manager to gain success...
To pick up on your comment BRB, when I first started watching gills we were a rock bottom old Div 3 side, then Scally came in and for all his faults spent a lot of money re-building the ground and playing staff. That money wasn't spent so we could languish in what is now League 2, we spent the money to move up the football pyramid. We are not a Premiershp club and never will be, Championship is also certainly beyond us. But we are most definitely a League 1 club in terms of our ground and stature and indeed playing squad, therefore the only reason we are not in League 1 is Hess! People need to start realising this and forgo their ridiculous love affair with a Manager that is simply not good enough, let's face it, even Stimson was better! Would we have ever lost to Daggers at home under him, absolutely no chance! For the record I am absolutely not a a Stimson fan!
About 12th in league one should be our natural position for an average manager. Above this we are doing well. 9th or 10th in league 2 is seriously underachieving.
sorry lads gotta get this off my chest! just read on kentonline hessy"s views, he said they done a job on us but he is happy D&R are safe from relegation! maybe i am still hurting from that defeat? surely he should not be saying things like that considering the importance of the result for the club/fans & possibly his own future, hess let someone else do aftermatch interviews, you are as diplomatic as boris johnson,
Gills-man-Ant-Dog I feel I should correct you on the Stimson comment. Would Stimson have achieved a result like Saturday's defeat? YES he would and in fact did - Gills 0-2 Barnet - we lost at home to Barnet 4 games from the end of that promotion season - Barnet who escaped relegation by the skin of their teeth that season! Did Stimson do a better job in league 2 than Hess - the answer is of course yes. Although things would have been somewhat different if Stimmo had not had a fully fit, brilliantly on-form Simon King! As for Hess... I guess my answer has to just about be yes - but only because we cannot afford to pay him off. 3 years on the contract - might as well give him that 3rd year to find out once and for all if he is capable of getting us promoted. The hope is that he will have learnt sufficiently about his squad, players and lg 2 tactics from the past 2 seasons to be able to get us promoted next season.
The argument that this is our level doesn’t really wash given the strength on paper and targeting an auto spot at the start of this season and last. If we don’t show ambition then this will definitely become our level. If that’s what we are happy with then let’s give Hess another 5 years with the target of mid table. But we are league 1 team and the chairman should line up a manager with the capabilities to organise a team to get us there. I have not seen anything in the last two years to suggest Hess will suddenly find the formula. Last season it was end of season home defeats to Barnet and Morecombe, this season Dagenham that sealed our fate I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a result at oxford but if we do id also bet we fall a cropper at Northampton. It’s a question of ambition (obviously in the context of budgets and economic common sense). we shouldn't expect to go up as a right but its more do do with Hess shortcomings in terms of organising a team effectively. The bottom line is that he has underachieved and as with any other line of work alternatives need be looked at.
Let's not forget that the season isn't over just yet. If (and only if) we beat Oxford on Saturday, then we are back in the play-off hunt. I agree that we would probably still end up falling short, but let's fight on til the end - no need to give up already.
I way thinking the same as you, that is best to keep Hessenthaler for a third season, but he has to understand this is last chance, if we get promoted he gets a new contract if not then he goes, that way Scally does not have to waste money on paying off another contract we just let him run it out, he should be able to take us up but if not then he would have to go.
Yes, too many managers are not given enough time, if he fails next year then it will be time to go. But we must play a more expansive game at home, for all the criticism that Stimson continues to get (and the away record was unforgivable) I know whose team I would rather watch at Priestfield, and I cant believe that anyone would say that we have played better quality football under Hess than we did under Stimson, more effective away from home, but not better to watch at home.
In answer to the thread header, my view is yes, he should be in charge at the beginning of 2012-13 season. But I do think that Old Timer in Cyprus makes a very good case that unless performances are very significantly improved say by the end of November, with a very good prospect of promotion, then he should be replaced at that time. However I'm not entirely convinced that the players still have real faith in the system and style that they are being asked to play. I have absolutely no evidence for this, not even inside information, and not based on watching live matches, it's just a gut feeling based on the way that games have gone. It is vitally important that the squad have absolute belief in the manager and coach (not just the right words at appropriate times), and I just can't see that at the moment. On other matters along the 'careful what you wish for' lines, the more advanced in years among us will have been watching Gills in the 1963-4 promotion season. Of the 24 teams that competed, the state of those clubs now (2011-12 season) is : Second tier (Championship) : Doncaster, Brighton, Third tier (Division 1) : Carlisle, Exeter, Tranmere, Rochdale, Hartlepool, Chesterfield (with Rochdale and Chesterfield likely to return to D2 next season) Fourth tier (Division 2) : Gills, Bradford City, Torquay, Aldershot, Oxford. That leaves 11 clubs, Workington, Halifax Town, Chester, Bradford Park Avenue, Newport, Lincoln City, Darlington, Southport, York, Barrow and Stockport who have gone on to leave the league completely in some way or another. On that very non-scientific basis it's more likely that in the longer term your club will go down than go up, so whilst of course we all would like more success than we've had in recent seasons, letâs be thankful for small mercies that we're still around and competing.
I'll second that. The most important things are A) Financial survival (so far so good...) B) Staying in the football league Having said that, Gills have spent most of their history in League 1, which is perhaps why some people are getting impatient
