There was talk a while ago about this but it has gone quiet , if we are lucky enough to get promoted could we justify expansion to say 40,000 ?
If we sell out for the majority of our first season (as I expect to) then yes of course, and it's important we do. One of the reasons Everton are struggling is a small ground giving reduced income, and it's bigger than ours!
I don't remember the actual figures, but it was said to be very expensive to add extra seats which would take years to get back even if you filled them. Can't see this for a very long time. Believe when asked if it was justified, Cortese replied something along the lines of when we win the Champions league.
I think we'd need to be pushing for europe regulary to justify it we may sell out alot but its a question of how many more seats we would sell if we could and I dont think we would regulary get over 40k which is about the amount which would be needed for it to be worthwhile.
No, we will not sell to for the majority of games in the first season. And anyway i don't like having part time fans coming to games. acting like they have supported the club all their lives. There are many examples of this that i could name, people supporting clubs like liverpool and manchester united then as soon as markus and nicola came in 'oh i am a saints fan.' I can proudly say that i am not one of these and have had a season ticket ever since they have been at st marys. every season. I have also been to my fair share of away games (majority being since we entered league one).
Unfortunately I do fall into that category...not majorly though. Yes I did used to support Liverpool, but then going to my first Southampton game when I was 10, it got me hooked, and since then I've been a Saints fan. I think me growing up in NI, we just supported the best English sides, although with my dad being down in Southampton, he always took us to Saints games at St Marys, and now I'm a die-hard fan. I got mocked for it when we were relegated obviously, but now I can safely say "who the **** is laughing now!?"
Yeah i just don't like the fans that have 'joined' the club since Markus took over and times changed or the people who started supporting us when we got to FA cup final.
Hate to criticise a fellow fan, but I think you are wrong on this, many a casual fan has become a permanent one, they have to start somewhere, as in any enterprise success breeds more success, when a team is doing well, new fans will come along, some will get hooked and will become nailed on, others will have other things to do with their life and will come as and when it suits them, there are no strict rules on loyalty, it is down to the individual. This is a football club not an unbending fascist regime.
It would need to be a brilliant reason and we are talking top 5 and Europe every season. I just can't see it while we are say, in the Premiership mid table, there's no point adding 10,000 seats which are filled three times a season. If we get to that situation then fantastic but I can't see it in the near future.
Expansion would only happen when we are a top 4 club. Given that we are spending (supposedly) between £10-15m on Staplewood I highly doubt expansion will occur for a decade or so.
Think it could be on the agenda before too long. We're regularly getting 30k crowds in the championship, an expansion to 35k or 40k could be a wise investment. These extra seats add significant extra income, consider the price of that many more season tickets, or match tickets for so many matches, multiplied by several thousand, we're talking an extra few million quid a season easily, not to be sniffed at. Cortese won't care whether that money comes from 'plastic' fans or not, it's all worth the same to the club.
All four seasons at at St Mary's in the Premier League saw averages of 30k+, including the season we came 20th and were relegated. 2004–05: 30,610 - Finished 20th and relegated 2003–04: 31,699 - Finished 12th 2002–03: 30,680 - Finished 8th 2001–02: 30,633 - Finished 11th Currently only 10 Premier League clubs in 2011/12 average over 30k, if Saints go up, they will be added to that list in the first season back. A huge number of games sold out between 2001 and 2005, and will do again if Saints are in the Premier League in 2012/13. If the club can average 30k+ in a relegation season like 2004/05, it could easily sell more than 30k if we were doing well in the Premier League. Saints are even able to get circa 30k crowds in the 2nd and 3rd tier, let alone returning to a league where Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle etc come to visit. Southampton need to expand St Mary's above 32k and Cortese intends to do exactly that. He has talked of 45k to 50k. I expect to see an announcement relatively soon. By "soon" I mean anytime from the day promotion is confirmed to two years later (summer 2014 at the end of what was the "5 year plan") Many people are underestimating what Cortese/Liebherr have planned for Saints. They are spending £15 million on Staplewood training ground at the moment with a similar spec to clubs in the Champions League and the academy will be category one under EPPP regulations coming into force in the summer. Cortese won't be going into the Premier League merely to be a bottom half/mid table team. They have big ambitions, and it "seems" the resources, business nous and desire to see it through.
An expansion has nothing to do with where we are in the league, but how many people are coming to games. If we're comfortably selling out every game then we're missing out on money by not having more seats, and we need income to prosper.
My point was that if Southampton averaged 30,610 in a relegation season like 2004/05, if the team was any good a lot more than 30k would turn up (especially for the Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs, Chelsea games). It is success that gets bums on seats. So if finishing 20th gets 30k bums on seats in a 32k stadium, if that stadium were bigger and the team was successful it suggests a lot more than 30k would turn up. Thus the stadium is already too small and we already have relatively recent data to show that without needing to wait to see what happens if we go up.
When Saints were in the PL they were almost always knocking on the limit of the capacity. I said it, way back when I saw the planned capacity, and I've always said it, St Marys is too small. It's a lovely stadium but there is no room for ambition. OK, it has been fine these last few years, but it will keep us as PL fodder if it is not expanded upon or another stadium is built. Cortese knows this and has said so. If we want to go regular Champions League hunting it has to be done. It will be a statement of ambition and intent and will draw the better players, just as a top of the line Academy will draw the best youngsters. Southampton FC is once again going to become the centre for top-class football in the South. It's a case of when and not if. However, in order to achieve the real money and silverware, the club has to be bigger than just that. I'm pretty sure Cortese's idea is for Southampton to be mentioned alongside Liverpool and Newcastle, and eventually alongside London and Manchester. To do that you've got to have a stadium that lives up to the ambition. And as far as filling it is concerned, what did the man say in the film..? People will come. Actually, I've just read MLG's post [#12] and he's said everything I wished to say. I'll post my own words anyhow.
Don't feel as if I was disagreeing with you - your post, the statistics, help my point - like you say, if we averaged over 30k in Rupert Lowe's relegation season then a club on the up like us would easily sell more with more success - therefore it does not matter where we are in the league, strictly, to expand. If we waiting until we were consistent top 5 to expand then we'd be waiting a long, long time without the financial benefits a bigger stadium would bring.
Sorry to butt in guys, but you taken on a point I wished to make there -Dan, which is that if Saints are properly ambitious, they won't wait for consistent success. They will expand or replace the stadium as part of the ambition towards success. I think Cortese knows that well and is planning for it.
I think the fact we started planning a £15m training ground in the third division shows Cortese wants to build for success instead of waiting for it and building around it. The man has a very clear plan in mind and seems determined to follow through with it, I have to imagine a stadium expansion is part of that.
Can't see a stadium expansion happening until we are slightly established in the Prem, about 2/3 seasons of being there and hopefully comfortable in midtable. Doesn't make any financial sense to plan to expand in the next year or so if we go up as we are a newly promoted team and there is a realistic chance we could go straight back down again. The academy is different as we should start to see a return on the £15 mil no matter what league we are in, due to player sales, increase of better players coming into first team meaning we don;t have to buy as many players. If we expanded to 40/45/50k and were in the Championship I highly doubt we would regularly get near the capacity so it seems like a waste of money until we are more established in the top flight
