I read with great amusemnt a comment stating ALL british managers and players are midtable bar ferguson. I did laugh at that. I would like to outline the actual history of 1989-90. When LFC last won the league... yes all that time ago under a certain manager who shall for now remain nameless... another club had a bit of a mare. Manchester United under the self same Ferguson finished 13th... yes 13th and won the FA cup after a lucky replay in the semi v oldham (3-3) and getting the draw in the final with only 7 mins of extra time to go Jump forward to today and you find things are VERY different. Oh i don't mean at utd. No i mean the fact that people seem to think being in 8th and an FA cup semi, and a carling cup already won is a sacking offesne in your first full season in charge. There's zero point defending LFC's current run of form as its relgation form anyone looking a tthe thing can say that but I think it is quite fair to point out that on at least some occasions backing your man can pay off. Sometimes you have to sack the guy, thats fair enough. I just have to think that it takes a very narrow short term view to completely write off a guy with a cup in his pocket or say he has to win the fa cup to survive when everyone should be well aware how badly off we were when he took over. In short I'd still like peopel to just think about a few things before jumping all ove rthe sacking bandwagon. Spurs have won exactly what under harry redknapp? yet he's not for the sack. Wenger scraped thigs together thanks to RVP he's not for the sack. Chelsea are 5th, only a couple of years away form being the best team in the league having sacked two managers and are going to get humiliated by barca, have a semi as well... should di matteo get the job cos of circumstance? should be be appointed just cos chelsea players are bothering themselves and are in a semi? hmmmmmm... Maybe kenny should go when everything is added up but i think the majority are not actually adding things up but jumping on things.
You make some good points. I would certainly agree that we should not just sack a manager on a knee jerk reaction. Look at what happened to wolves... Liverpool does not take the short term view but did the sacking of Roy after a few months set an unwanted precedent?
I think the better example would be look at Arsenal and Wenger. Wolves were a sinking ship, maybe they had more chance with Mick but I think they would have still gone down. Obviously Wenger never had a run as bad as ours, but most Gooners thought that it would be best if he went. How wrong were they? Now the sun is shinning out of his arse again. If Kenny goes in the summer, I will understand and accept it...just so long as we bring in someone who can drive us forward, not backwards or sideways. If Kenny stays, then just think about Wenger at Arsenal. I just hope we have a better summer of spending.
Good points MITO, it's all about advancing in levels. IF we can win the FA cup then it's been a pretty good season. It will also help hugely in terms of the mentality of the players. Add a touch of quality and players with the winning attitude like Suarez, Gerrard and Bellamy and we can make a few more steps up in level next season, just need to find out how to undo the curse that's over us too!
I find it funny that there are so many peopel commenting on the rubbish and nobody willing to make an actual debate on things...
Mate I must admit I had the same frustrations a week or so ago about Adam; I was showing stats that were generally ignored by the majority. Prior to that there was no shortage of Adam bashing and scapegoating. Not sure what it is a lack of intelligence or that they are terrified they might be proven wrong, its frustrating though!
To be fair, most of the attacks have be born out of a deep sense of frustration. Whilst many parts of the teams play this season have been very good indeed, the points tally has not reflected that. Had we been less pleasing on the eye but gained more points (and hence a higher league position) then there would have been less vitriol. It is also fair to say that some of the performances, particularly from the newcomers, have not been as good as we would have wished. This is certainly true of both Adam and Downing. Our expectations of the squad has been very high since the start of the season and I believe that this has meant that we have not allowed the new players time in which to develop within the club. Injuries to Lucas, Gerrard and Agger have meant that when those players who have struggled should have been withdrawn, they were of necessity continued - this has not helped their confidence at all. Jake Spearring and Jordan Hemderson have improved significantly this season. However both have suffered. If Lucas's injury had been short term then we would all have been singing the praises of Spearring but he has had to play too many games in a critical position and his form has ultimately suffered. The same is true for Henderson. He has had to play in positions that he is not suited to and has suffered accordingly. I really feel sorry for Charlie Adam. When he came to us, we already knew that he wasn't the fastest and that his tackling was not great. However, we had seen from his Blackpool games that his passing and dead-ball abilities were amongst the best in the Prem. His game has suffered more than most - to the point were he is a liability at what he does well. This truly is a very bad case of 2nd season syndrome and I expect to see a refreshed and renewed Adam next season. Downing on the other hand has not lived-up to our expectations. I understand that he is a confidence player but as our season has gone we have not been able to afford yet another Heskey! The we come to the enigma that is Andy Carroll. Many us have said that he will ultimately come good and defended him against the "waste of money" attacks from other fans. Some pundits have put the blame on our style of play by saying that we do not play to his strengths. I am beginning not to care! We have potentially 2 big games and if he doesn't pull his finger out in them then I would be pleased to see him go in the Summer - no matter what the loss. The whole Suarez issue has greatly affected the club, the fans and the player far more than we might like to admit. There's nothing we can do about it now. Let's hope that when the Terry issue finally comes to court a lot of the 'heat' is removed form us and that Suarez can have an 'easy' Summer and return as the dynamic player he was at the start of this season. Then we have the old campaigners. For me this has been one season too far for Carra. When he now plays he is a liability and the defence sits too deep. Gerrard is another matter. We more than compensated for his long term absence but looked forward to his return. What we have seen from him since his return is nowhere near the class we have come to expect. Perhaps, either his will or his body or both are no longer capable? I don't know. I do know that we need more from him and that an understudy/replacement is now more critical. Finally, we have to turn our attention to Kenny. I believe that when the season started he had every intention of employing the whole squad to suit the needs of the game. However, injuries, loss of form and events have meant that he was never able to put that plan into operation. I am not being an apologist but I believe that his best efforts will not become apparent until next season.
fordeck, there's nothing i nwhat you've said that anyone could really argue with. If people would say... ok kenny might improve next season but is it ever going to go far enough then i'd say fair enough but the fact is all they are saying si just sack him. I've been as angry as anyone about what was said and done during the suarez thing. if this is peoples motivation then they should state that. If we win next weekend... well wow we'll have a manager with one cup and one final and an unspectacular league retrun looking a tthe sack and i have to wonder what leads to that? are we chelsea?
I think every true LFC supporter must be bitterly disappointed with our league form whether they admit it or not. Cups are a compensation for a poor showing in the league but not an alternative to making a challenge at the top. The real question is what to do about it, and when. Our squad additions have, overall, been disappointing. We couldn't have known that before the event and now that we see it we have the opportunity to remedy it in the summer. If we're in a similar position this time next season then I think it would be fair to say that Kenny isn't the man for the job. At the moment however, I'm sure he can see his mistakes and is ready to try and put them right and we have to give him the opportunity to do that imo. I think a lot of those calling for his head are younger fans brought up in a culture of instant gratification but life is seldom that easy and we need a little patience- though I admit it's difficult and painful watching us in our current predicament.
saint, I think your point about patience is well made. Most posters will never have experienced what I (and probably you) have. When I was a kid, Liverpool were certainly the 2nd club. In fact Everton were a major force in Div.1 whilst we languished in Div2 and showed no signs of recovery. Now that was hard to take. We could only hope that things would change - some day! Even when Shankly arrived and things did start to change we hardly dared to believe that we could match and ultimately surpass Everton. I believe that we are in the same type of situation. Things have changed but they will take a little time for them to flower. Patience is the watchword.
Mate I think you have hit the nail on the head! Being a Halifax fan also I have the patience of a saint, probably explains why I am in favour of giving Kenny more time whilst some others are not!
The only reason I can think of getting rid of Kenny now is because I think morale and confidence is at an all time low and is very hard for the existing manager to recover from. Just look at Hodgson and the effect that Kenny had when he first came. I would definately like to see Kenny stay for one more season - he knows what it's like to play in and manage a world class team.
Is morale and confidence REALLY at an all time low... I mean 18months ago that might have been true as the high courts decided our fate.... now? cup final to play for, cup in the pocket... how can morale be lower than the demise of G&H... I am firmly of the opinion now that id you only look at the stats that shankley, ferguson and many other legends of the game would be sacked if they did what they did to build thier dynastys given this epic perpencity to demand success instantly. I too am unsure if kenny really has whats needed LONG TERM (age and other things come into that, its complicated) but i am absolutely sure that if we beleive its all kennys fault we are badly badly mistaken. If we really believe that appointing someone will make martinez, hazard, llorente, fgio, zidane and whomever you want to say jump at joining our project then fine... lets be that deluded. I have to agree with the statement that our sigings have disappointed. I was never one for adam and can be quoted as saying we could take or leave him, i hated the carroll sigining on the day and think its borne out to be exactly what most thought it would be, if not worse.... and downing has been a let down form even his villa form. Enrique is even suffering now due to lack of a rest or morale or just plain having a bad couple of weeks. The point must be if all woes could be fixed in one transfer window, don't you think all clubs would go do so? why do we think that one transfer window and we should be top 4 by divine right?
Perhaps 'all time low' was the wrong expression but confidence and morale are definately very low and it's hard to get out of it. To not beat Wigan and Aston Villa of all teams at Anfield shows the lack of confidence. Winning the Carling Cup is an achievement but no player or manager will be using it as a way of compensating for our league performance. Even winning the FA Cup may not be enough, purely because our league position is THAT bad. With regards to Adam, he looked a lot better when playing alonside Lucas and I would rather see a partnership of Lucas/Adam then Gerrard/Lucas. I know it's quite a bold statement but we played so much better without Gerrard.
I think there's a bit of an issue but i think there's passengers in the team and thats whats affecting some of it. we need ultimate effort for 90mins and gerrard aint giving 50%. heads might be down a bit but i think a lot of things can affect that. kenny must pick form players, hungry players and give guys thier heads. senior players need to wake themselves up and give more effort and urgency. players who know full well they can put the ball in the net need to stop snatching at chances and just slot one in just like it was game one of a new season not a desperately needed goal. finally players need to play like thier poistion in the team is actually o nthe line for the semi. let me say one thing, this semi is a big game but blackbrun is just as important in many ways... Bolton game for me was our very worst and kenny had a go after it. if we repeat the one eye o nthe weekend form tonight i'll not be happy. a mistake was made v bolton. to repeat it = nothing learned. That would make me more angry than a bad ref call or a player getting injured
I'm not convinced morale is low, we're still playing well enough as a team. Confidence is shot, though-particularly in front of goal. Everyone seems so nervous when they get an opportunity that they try too hard to put it away and end up fluffing it. I still think a decent run of results would overcome that problem. All we can do now is do our best until the end of the season and try to sort it out in the summer with a few careful signings.
One thing I was impressed with was our resolve against Villa. We fought back well and the introduction of Agger played a big impact. I hope Agger is ready to start because he and Skrtel play a higher line and instantly, we look more threatening. I would like to see Henderson in the centre again, looks so much more energetic and comfortable in that role. His passing was top notch.
What I meant is better players for better value. Better summer of spending by no means more al la City/Chelsea.
I thought there was no difference between 7th and 17th? So that was a highly successful season for us then
