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Here we go again

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by TenG, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    I don't remember that, not saying its not true I just dont remember it.

    But considering he has been pretty dire for a lot of the season and he isn't very defensive, why would you play a tired/confidence lacking player in a position like that ?? Poor management yet again by Wenger. Benayoun is far better defensively than Ramsey.
     
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  2. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    You state a few opinions as facts and use these opinions to somehow prove a conclusion.

    I don't know where you get that Ramsey is tired and lacking confidence. I don't know where you get that Benayoun is better defensively. I don't know how you decide that it is a management problem rather than an execution problem.

    I'm not absoluely sure how you worked out that Ramsey was the problem with the team.

    Do you care to give us some reasoning behind your conclusions?
     
    #42
  3. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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    -could it be that recently he has been the worst player in the team? (and I hope he will turn out to be a great player for us).
     
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  4. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    I think that is an opinion, that I am not sure that I share. Again what is it exactly that you think he is or isn't doing that makes him the "worst player in the team"? Once again you used an opinion stated as a fact to prove your conclusion.

    He covers a lot of ground and gets through a lot of the grunt work. He certainly hasn't been the best player on the team, but the worst, hmmmmm, not sure.
     
    #44
  5. Topgun

    Topgun Member

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    Maybe because Ramsey has been awful for about the last 10 matches, constantly giving the ball away and he always fades on about 60 mins he lacks stamina imo. Why play him on the left instead of the Ox?!?! He should be a sub nothing more, very out of form.
     
    #45
  6. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Well (IMO) Ramsey is better defensively to Ox or Benny, and I'm not sure that the stats would agree that he gives the ball away any more than Rosicky.
     
    #46
  7. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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  8. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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    TT - just imagine (you are good at that) that I added IMO to everything I post. Then perhaps you will realise it's my OPINION - not necessarily a FACT. Hope that helps sort out the confusion you are going through. I suggest consulting your GP over the state of your mind - pressure seems to be tipping you over the edge.
    Get well soon, and take a break from posting it's doing your head in.
     
    #48
  9. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Okay, believe it or not, I knew it was your "opinion". What I am trying to point out is that in a debate, you usually try and articulate why you formed an opinion, to justify it. That way you can have a reasonable debate instead of a childish Monty Pythonesque, Oh yes it is, oh no it isn't argument.
     
    #49
  10. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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    You are a prime example of the 'Oh yes it is, oh no it isn't' style of debate (I use the word foolishly).

    You allege Arsenal is full of World-class players and should only ever buy another of that level.
    I counter by opining that we have only 1, in the future maybe another and a third of dubious consistency.
    You are not able to tell me who else is of that standard. I call you out and you can only reply with abuse.

    So that's debating, is it?
     
    #50

  11. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, I wasn't attempting to abuse you. I was trying to point out that you should try to justify your opinion with reasoning, not just another opinion.

    If you say Wenger is crap. That is no different to saying Wenger is crap, because he bought Walcott who is crap. Both of those are simply opinions.

    If you say Wenger is crap, because he hasn't won a trophy in 8 years, we can debate that and try to determine thether this proves he is crap or not. The fact that he hasn't won a trophy in 8 years is a matter of record.

    Topgun came in with a very reasonable point that we could debate about Ramsey fading on 60 minutes and giving the ball away a lot. He added in a little bit of hyperbole for fun, no big deal, and we were off to the races.

    There really is no need to be nasty about it. If we didn't disagree, there would be no point in this forum.
     
    #51
  12. I think you are stating opinion as fact.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
    #52
  13. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    You think we only have 1 world class player?

    how about:

    Bakari Sagna - He's the best rightback in the league. Surely he's a world class fullback? (name me a better rightback?)

    Thomas Vermaelen?
    Sczezney?

    I personally think Jack Wilshere is already World Class.
     
    #53
  14. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    So why is it that you and your cronies try to shout down anyone with a different opinion to yours ?? When valid arguments are put forward that are contrary to the mantra of Arsene is great or Arsene can do no wrong, the abuse starts.
     
    #54
  15. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Not guilty. I am always willing to get into a conversation about Arsenal and football in general. I post on topics and try and introduce facts and views on topics. Typically it is the anti-Wenger brigade that try to shut down any discussion on the topic. Every single thread has, "We are losing, Wenger is crap, the team is crap." If you try and post anything in reply you get insulted or accused of something, like you are doing now.

    Stop trolling and discuss the subject.
     
    #55
  16. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    This thread is aptly named.
     
    #56
  17. The Magic Man

    The Magic Man Well-Known Member

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    :laugh:

    Too ****ing true.
     
    #57
  18. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    Yeah right. The trolling takes place as soon as someone criticises Wenger. Some numpty will accuse someone of being a plastic, another numpty will say Wenger can do no wrong, yet another numpty will be abusive then you have the numptys who can't argue but call you a WUM. If people abuse me I abuse them back, simple. I discuss topics all the time, I never just mudlsing - mudslinging takes place when some oaf can't argue with me or makes snidey little comments trying to provoke a reaction. The anti Wenger brigade argue points far more than the In Arsene We Trust gang who don't usually come into the thread to argue - only to abuse.
     
    #58

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