Agree with most of what Dirty Frank is saying, really. Am I happy at our results? Of course not. Do I think we'll win every match? Of course not. Do I see things through rose(red)-tinted glasses? Of course I do: I'm a reds fan. I can't see things otherwise. Why would I want to? Would I ever be embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan? Never. Never, ever. Even if we were relegated countless times and ended up having a victory parade after not losing to Ormskirk! All big teams go through tough times. Man U were relegated; Man City were relegated twice. In comparison we're sitting pretty!
When we have fans talking of supporting even when relegated we all know we are in big trouble. Where is the fight? We have people here resigned to mediocrity. For what? Would you have been so patient with another Liverpool manager? Of course not. We will accept mediocrity and embarrassment from Kenny. Where was your loyalty with Roy as a reds manager? Did fans give him the benefit of the doubt? No At least Aldridge was honest and brave. He knew that Kenny's men will crucify him.
Fans just need to stay with THE FACTS Worst season in last 10 yrs( worse than when Rafa,Roy and Houllier where sacked) Worst goals scored since 50s Wosrt run since 50s 19th in League since Xmas Worst home record since 50s ( maybe somethin to do with how many times we have played 1 striker at home) Record in last 12 is W2D2L8 Carroll regularly dropped despite winning record when he plays is v good.Adam constantly started despite fact when he starts we nearly always lose And all these statistics come off the back of.LIVERPOOLS LARGEST TRANSFER NET SPEND EVER, of about £36m-£40m I think most of what Aldo says , hits the nail on the head
^^ At last an objective view! Some fans can still see the truth through the red fog spread by Kenny's men. When we have fans accepting mediocrity even relegation just because it is Kenny then we know we are in trouble unless we act. Let's get a new man in the summer and give him money to rebuild. I make a plea to the owners: Please please do not give any more money to Kenny to squander!!
I've also been thinking about the whole who we bought & why we bought them. STOP: take this post as an attempt to learn from mistakes & NOT as an attempt to just deflect criticism away from Kenny! Remember when the signings came rolling in during the summer? What came with it; dozens of stories & interviews with the owners declaring the joys of "money ball" philosophy. These players were targeted because they were top of x chart or y statistic. This player ran - miles in a 85% of their matches. Now was this just hype, something to add a gloss to the image of our swanky new owners or did this among other things "buy British" for example influence the signings. If so maybe the owners have learnt that while stats apply brilliantly to US sports & as much as they are hailed by sky sports they're maybe not the best indicator of the best footballer; they don't take into account, guts/heart, calmness under pressure, ego under pressure! Chemistry among teammates. The same argument that has applied to English players when taken out of a ring of skillfull foreigners can be applied to this set. They were all as good last year because of the players round them! I'd argue a prime example of this is Adam. With Lucas beside him he looked good, without well.... Now this might seem to support the idea that they were all a giant mistake: I'd try something a bit more positive. I think it shows that with Lucas back and a few more skillfull acquisitions these buys can suit all purposes. That is what we are missing. It's not saying everything's fine or good enough; it's saying with the right choices in the summer to play beside them next year , these players could play as well as they did before they joined us. Take it or leave it as you will!
It's called hyperbole. It's used for rhetorical effect. The way some fans are talking you'd think we were being relegated. We're not. That's the point I was trying to make...using hyperbole. If we are not 'resigned to mediocrity', what can we do? Nothing. You support the club. When clubs lose the fans, the team suffers. And we're talking worse-than-out-of-the-top-four suffer. Yes, providing the manager showed signs of improving the team. I'm not embarrassed, and we're not mediocre. Mediocrity is a relative thing anyway. One man's mediocrity is another's Carling Cup winner. Honest, maybe; sensationalist, certainly. As DirtyFrank pointed out he's paid for an opinion. Kenny is Liverpool manager, I support Liverpool therefore I'm one of Kenny's men - just like I was Roy's man when he was in charge (although I saw no improvement under Roy so was less impressed). As for 'crucify', he's not Jesus (the son of Fowler) he's a pundit. Like Lawro. And we don't always agree with Lawro, do we?
I'd add that I think an error of judgement by management was thinking Gerrard was one of those skillfull players that would do this. I don't think so, I think he needs it as much as the others more & more in recent years & this false idea that he's the can do guy has created a bad attitude in new acquisitions because like us they believe it too; sit back & hope Stevie does the thing.
Lost all respect for Aldo when he was calling for Rafa's head after one bad season. They don't come more fickle than Aldo so he can go **** off.
Day; "Fans" don't have to "stay with anything." We all support Liverpool for different reasons, we all can fire "facts" out our arse all day long. And I notice you side stepped it nicely. Please answer my 2 questions (with a fact if it answers it): If KD was incompetent, his buys absolute trash: How did Aldo do a complete 180 in less than a month? The article exists; it's a fact. Why were you or Carl not raging in the comments section of THAT article calling him deluded & sticking to the facts? You both appear to have had this magic insight since the start of the season but we heard f*ck all of this negativity until a month ago; tentative a first then growing in your self perpetuating outrage. This may well be why some people consider your views now an over-reaction. Just a thought.
Fair play mate. People should feel they can offer their opinions on here without getting shot down. I think the whole situation is quite nasty and could get very bitter. Do you get rid of the legend who's part of the furniture? Or perhaps you keep him and the team could go even further backwards (if thats what you believe). I always thought when he took on the job full time, it would either be fantastic or end up bitter for both party's. I keep changing my mind. I keep thinking he should have another year - then I think actually we've been so poor, the transfers so bad, that someone should be held accontable - plus for the longterm benefit of the club, someone new to take the club forward should come in at the end of the season - why wait another year if you're not confident this will work out. Very very tought call. Especially for the owners. Will they be scared to upset the fans?
I think the last summer on transfer was possibly worse than the Diouf,Diao,Cheyrou yr and thats sayin somethin.I knew we were gonna be cr*p at the start of August. Football transfers are a lot easier than people make out, if thousands of fans worldwide are sayin buy Juan Mata on twitter and he would be happy to come,which he would have, then you go and buy him,its not rocket science.As for the alleged moneyball approach not sure we used it at all, we didnt buy really young players, we bought Adam at 25,and Downing at 27, whres the sell on value in Downing now, there aint any,I just think it was Dalglish wanting Brits, when they are clearly inferior and overpriced.I am totally baffled why Comolli spent 6 months scouting mainland for us to buy NO ONE from Europe in the summer,whats all that about, I suspect thats why there was a delay with Dalglish contract in April, cos he wanted total control on transfers Just think we could have had Mata/Cazorla who would have both come, for the price we paid for Hendo,Adam,Downing.That alone IMO is a sacking offence, absolute madness!!!!!
I dont know Aldo said a month ago TBH, Ididnt read that article, and thats why I didnt mention it plus I dont think anyone posted it on this board,..... what he is saying now I agree with.Just after we won the CC , what did I think of the club then, I thought we were a pretty mediocre side,who had made massive mistakes in the window, who on any given day can turn up a really good performance, but generally we are a fairly average side , who had signed average players in the summer and the League program would show up our weaknesses, even at Xmas we were slightly off the pace for top 4.But I thought we would probably finish 6th/7th in the League Personally at the start of the season I thought our buys were pretty poor bar Bellamy and Coates,I knew Bellars was a great signin, what I had seen of Coates I though he was gonna be a top player eventually too.Enrique I hadnt seen enough of him really,and I admit thought Clichy would have been a better buy but chose City, but i think we only got Enrique as 2nd choice anyway so we got lucky with that 1.With Downing and Henderson I thought we could have bought players infinity better for less money,Adam I just thought was cra* and nowhere near good enough, how does someone who cant get in the Rangers side for 5 yrs get in the LFC side.Those were my views at THE START of the season,and I dont think I have been far out.Whats more I think I posted an article similar to waht I have just said " At the start of the season" to which I got dogs abuse, but appears now I was fairly accurate http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/87664-Kennys-Signins-So-Far http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/56050-Transfers-Quality-Foreigners-not-Mediocre-Brits http://www.not606.com/showthread.ph...he-Best-quot-Well-The-Best-are-in-Spain-FACKT!!! http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/69708-Which-Team-is-Best
League wise, yes. But we've won a trophy and we are in a semi-final of another. If we end the season with two trophies will you call it a poor one? Most people support teams to see them win trophies. People will be talking about our carling cup win long after they've finished talking about the season we heroically finished 4th in the league to qualify for the CL. Can't be argued with that this is poor, but could easily be 10 or 20 more with a bit more composure infront of goal. Again can't be argued with but could easily have turned the losses against QPR, Arsenal and Newcastle into wins if a combination of things like crucial refereeing decisions and chances had gone our way. Sure, some of the losses were self inflicted, like Dalglish taking Suarez off at QPR, but we've had our fair share of bad luck in this run, and this sesaon. The league doesn't start at Christmas. Yes, because we never played 1 up top under Rafa, ever. Poor, but not sure its quite the crisis you portray. Carroll's record is only good because he only gets picked for certain games i.e. ones we are most likely to win anyway. The sample is too small to decide if Carroll starting/not starting actually has an effect on the team. I've seen nothing in our performances to say we are any better with Carroll starting than without. And the squad has been improved. Last season we had the options of Gerrard, Lucas, Spearing, Poulsen, Shelvey & Meireles in the centre. Now we have Adam, Gerrard, Lucas, Spearing, Henderson & Shelvey. Same on the wings, last season it was Meireles, Joe Cole and Maxi. This season we have Bellamy, Downing & Maxi. Wide players who are miles better than Meireles and Cole of last season. Kuyt & Suarez were our only options upfront for most of last season while Andy was injured, now we have Bellamy added into the mix, who is a very good player to have on the bench/occasional starter. Our defence for large portions of the second half of the season last season was Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel/Agger & Johnson with Kyrgiakos, Aurelio and Robinson as back up. Now we've got Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique as our first choice defence with Coates as back up, instead of the lumbering Greek.
Ouch. Does he not work for Liverpool TV? What he said might be true but I think he could have put it better and been less forthright.
B4F, hats off to you mate. It's time those who support Kenny no matter what let other fans express their opinions as they wish. If I choose to just base my views on facts without any sentimentality for Kenny then it is my choice , like it should be for any others who have grave doubts about his ability to rectify the awful situation we are in. The argument that Kenny's men use to stifle debate is ' we have won one cup and is on course to win another do why are we being critical. The situation is not that bad.' If we look at the facts and believe the situation is awful and unacceptable, then it's OUR choice. We will not be bullied.
Nah, think he's more of a guest pundit on it mate, just like loads of other ex pros, albeit he's on more regularly than most. Think the only places he's actually employed are Radio City and the Liverpool Echo.
