There is no point in getting rid of Kenny now that we're only 1 month away from the end. At least let him finish the season and try to complete the double. At the end of the season, Carragher needs to retire. There doesn't seem to be any connection between JC and Skrtel and we have since conceded a lot of goals. Gerrard needs to be utilised as a super sub - the only problem now is that we don't have anyone else that is better hence why he is playing so much. We all need to stop kissing his arse and realise that he is not that good anymore, too pedestrian in the centre of the park, his shooting is wild and his set pieces and crosses are poor. As mentioned previously, a change of captain may be good and I would like to see Lucas step up to the role although I have my doubts about his ability to be vocal but one thing is for sure and that is he will lead by example.
As expected we are getting lots of different views. We are also engaging into lots of discussion around the players and the tactics to be used. Which is fair enough. But don't let us forget the bottom line: I agree with Red. You, I and all fans can speculate, chat, discuss and argue the toss. But the buck stops with one person who has to take full responsbility for the results. He is paid to do that. There is no question of "player X did that, Y didnt do that etc etc therefore I as manager am not at fault". If the results are not good enough (in the eyes of the owners!) Kenny must carry the can. All the banter about tactics, injuries, suspensions, aging etc will just be that: banter.
last firday i said to someone that if we won the cup they could go cry in a corner while i celebrated. I don't mind being told where to go wonce theres a solid reaosning behind it. I eman guys write a squad and you'll see something serious. (i write comolli to mean comoll./kenny ) reina (rafaman) doni (comolli signing thank god we got him not jones) Johnson kelly (rafa men, both quality both missing) Skertl Agger (rafa men come good) coates (comolli) Carragher is Past it Enrique (comolli) aurelio (past it rafa and hodgson mistake) Lucas (rafa man) spearing (not up to it) Gerrard PAST IT adam (comolli blunder) Henderson (comolli) Kuyt (past it rafa man) Maxi (well past it rafa man) Downing (comolli, disappointing) Bellamy (old un but good un) Suarez (comolli) Carroll (comolli flop) I have to ask here. where are all the men raf signed in his last couple of years? where are all the hodgson men? Wehre is the real quality players rafa signed... This is a clear indication of the sale and replacment twith dross that our squad experienced... We have signed just about as many players as i think we could attract and make room for in one year. we still have carragher, maxi, aurelio and even to some extent kuyt (who is just fading now) we have reina, the much maligned jonhson and skertl form rafa's era alongwith the injury prone agger. After that the perennial scouse heart looks shattered. I would have to actually say bar the two real flops in carroll and adam where exactly did the huge expectation that this year was going to be anything but a developmental one come from? I have to say I think a LARGE part of it came from a thought that arsenal were imploding, spurs would sell their best players and we would walk into 4th on a wave of kenny dalglish form... BTW i remember clealry losing to many dirt sides last season under kenny too..... We are on a JOURNEY, It will not go any quicker with people asking are we there yet every 5 minutes but if you kepp it up back there I'll roll up my newspaper and meat out some punishment ok!
carl, what you call banter i call actually thinking about things.. just ask yourself why did he do that, start form the point where he's trying his best... with hodgson you have to come to the conclusion he's totally incompetant at that level. Kenny's record and the pot on the sidebaord wuold suggest that he is not that incompetent. At least try to come up with a list of 5 things good and bad about things. its NOT banter.
Doesn't matter what any of you think. The decision is in FSG's hands and I am sure they will access the situation and take their time to make the right decision
OK, guys, I've been away from the frontline for the past couple of months and you know when things are going down the tubes when the Muppetfinder comes out of retirement! This is really highly charged stuff. We're all hurting big time from witnessing one of the worst runs in living memory (and the rest), but I do tend to agree with MFG that we can choose how we respond to these situations. I was not one of those who viewed KK's appointment through such rose-tinted glasses because I'm old enough to remember the relief at Newcastle when he hit the exit door. I'm also old enough to reflect on the fact that his original 'coming' as player-manager involved a major legacy in terms of playing talent/resource in depth from the Paisley/***an era. I don't think he was ever really an Anfield Legend as a manager in the same way that you can credibly view him as a player. We love him because he genuinely cares about the club - and much of this is informed by what he had to endure as manager, at a deeply personal level, during the dark days of Hillsborough and its aftermath. But is the fact that 'he cares' enough? Possibly not for the majority of people on who are currently clamouring for his sacking/resignation. And they will, I hope, feel awkward when we get closer to picking up the FA Cup in the coming weeks. All I can say is that, loyalty/transition/'the boot room' are rare, but to me, valuable features in a football club. As is patience among it supporters. It's far too easy to cry out 'off with his head' without thinking through the consequences. In the case of Hodgson's departure, the issue was far more about a fundamental cultural misfit that was clearly irreconcilable - indeed it was a very public illustration of the lack of understanding and 'feel' of Waldorf & Statler for the club. With Kenny, IMHO. it feels different. We have made a bed and we should, for now, get used to laying in it. If we had been more objective in our observations of not 'Kenny, the Man' but 'Kenny, the Manager', we might have all stood back and said to ourselves: this is a truly great idea (KK becoming LFC manager), but, you know what? We owe it to ourselves and to HIM probably NOT to do it. But the emotion was overwhelming... So we went ahead anyway. So now perhaps we should just take few chill pills and reflect on the fact we have had truly awful run of not only results but of LUCK too. Even yesterday. Am I defending the hiring of Adam, Downing, Henderson and the Other Guy? Of course not, because they haven't come through with anything - mainly goals. But IMHO Downing and Henderson are eminently capable of having a 'good second year' - and Suarez and Enrique have had solid first years too. Injuries to Lucas, Aggar and Johnson/Kelly combined have had a far bigger impact on our performances than we have recognised. It already been said elsewhere that the knives were out for Wenger on more than one occasion due to diabolical results/performances and attitudes during this season (remember the terrible image of Rosicky walking away from goal number 7 at Old Trafford?) Yet if I came back into this life again and wasn't able to be a Red, I would have a lot more time for the values of the Gooners than I would for Chelski. I know it's an old-fashioned view, but to me one of the reasons that I have always loved this club is that at its core HOW we achieved things was always as important as WHAT we achieved. I was blessed with the experience of growing up in the 70's/80's when both things seemed to come together. So try to live through this current (melo)drama. It what being a supporter is all about. And we'll feel all the better for coming out the other side. GKRK.
Except Carl; what you call banter is a fundamental difference in opinion from the very opening premise. You keep coming from the position that your overly simplistic "anything & everything that goes wrong is the managers fault" is the mutually accepted starting point in the discussion. It is not accepted by everyone. What I & I believe MITO are trying to tell you is that we don't agree with this starting point. We believe there is a much more complicated number of factors involved in our current unacceptable performances and just getting rid of one manager & replacing him with another will not result in the improvements you believe will happen in a further year...so do we then ignore the complexity once again and sack the next one only to start the cycle again because taking the wrong action just to be seen to take any action might not be in the best interests of the club long term; or get you what you want as fast as you want it. And yes, FSG will be the ones that decide what is success or failure, All anyone screaming for heads is doing is causing an unpleasant atmosphere for everybody to work in. Hardly going to inspire the change we all appear to want in form & performance.
am i wrong in thinking that when we beat utd 2-0 at anfield with torres and n'dog scoring in rafa's last year that we'd not won in 7? I mean ok we lost 6 in the league.. but i'm sure this worst run in 50 years stuff is exaggerating the thng but ignoring cup matches. our players only seem bothered i nthe cup and i'm sure kenny is irate about it too.
sure its poor, i'm just wondering if we are getting beat up by all and sundry as per or whether it really is that catastropic.
Frank, fair enough I'd like to think I am as objective as they come. Many people have a soft spot for Kenny, which is fair enough. Because we all have our favourites. We love some and we dislike others. He was legend as a player but not as a manager. We tend to give people we love more leeway. Some people are saying that Kenny may have lost the dressing room (because of Pepe's reaction, Carroll's reaction when he was subbed) but I cannot believe that. He is probably too soft with the players having been one himself and I think he misses the boot room. (IMO he didn't take a strong enough line with Suarez during that episode. It looked as if Suarez was dictating to him what to do.) I honestly believe that our next game is truly a MUST win one. I think it is against Villa at home. They are themselves in a strange period and are not playing well especially away. Like Lauro said "I do not think that Kenny will be sacked but at some stage we must start winning games. Villa is a true must win match ". Should we lose or draw that match, I think Kenny's position will be untenable and those fans who now support him will find it very difficult.
Personally, I think this is part of the problem but in a different way to how you see it. I think a lot of people that are not happy think fans are sticking up for Kenny because it is indeed Kenny. IMO, that is simply not true. Now, I will state that I love Kenny and he is obviously a club legend. However, if I think he is doing something wrong or is to blame, you can bet your bottom dollar I won't be standing up for him. You may even see me point the finger myself from time to time (not my style but do occasionally have a lapse). I judge Kenny in the same way that I judged Evans, Houllier, Rafa and Hodgson. They are our manager and I have an opinion on the style they employ. I watch every game and have an opinion on each and every performance in terms of both the manager and players. Their reputations means nothing. You are only as good as your last game and all that. At this moment in time, the players and manager are getting a lot of flack and rightly so since two wins in twelve games is in no way shape or form good enough. However, calling for the managers head is not going to help things. We have played good football this season and, IMO, the problems we are experiencing run deeper than the manager. IMO, we fans can't do anything other than support our team. Moaning and condemning people is not going to help turn it around, it is only going to put more pressure on everyone associated with the club. Kenny is our manager so lets support him in every game he is in charge of no matter what happens. FSG are in charge and will be constantly assessing the situation and they will take their time in making any decision they think needs considering.
You have to look at why we gave the game away? Why are we not scoring goals? Why do we never come back after going a goal down? If you want to put the blame on the players - then you have to ask who bought them?!!! It's a circle which ends up with Kenny, and to what extent I don't know, Cosmolie.
