Was chatting with an LFC supporting friend yesterday and ended up drawing an interesting conclusion. I wonder if one of your big problems is Dalglish has gone too far trying to create a positive atmosphere in the squad. It sounds like when he came in morale was absolutely on the floor, but that may have influenced his priorities. He seems to be too unwilling to do anything that might piss the players off, and there's more than a few examples: 1. His media comments. Yes we've taken the piss for it, but it's interesting that he highlighted the players being happy as a big positive thing this season. Most managers recognise that you don't want the squad to be too happy cos it breeds complacency and overconfidence. Not sure Dalglish recognises this. 2. He hasn't followed through on his threats. After the Bolton game IIRC he gave a big speech about "if that's how they perform they won't be playing here for long". And yet they're still performing that badly, and still in the team. A hollow threat could be worse than no threat at all. 3. His handling of the big players. I've previously highlighted how I think Suarez is in much the same situation as Ronaldo in 2005. Beating defenders easily, making a nuisance of himself, plenty of clever flicks, tricks and dribbling, but precious little end product. But whilst SAF made it pretty clear that more was expected of Ronaldo, Dalglish seems too concerned about pissing off Suarez to criticise him or demand any more. 4. Player power. Whilst he hasn't faced any big revolts a la Tevez or Rooney, it's interesting to see that a week or so after Shelvey complained about being recalled and then not getting any playing time, he's on the bench then in the starting line up next game. I know Adam was injured, but putting Shelvey ahead of the other players on the bench seemed an odd choice, unless it was driven by a desire to avoid any unhappiness or bad headlines? I may be completely wrong with this, but thought it was worth a mention. To quote a great man: Thoughts?
Too many **** players and a clueless manager. 3 top class players and they'll win the league next year.
That's probably the wisest assessment yet Swarbs. Having exactly the same conversation with my neighbour after the game this afternoon and we bothagreed KD seems to be trying to be too much of a friend to the players when they need straightening out - He needs to give them a kick up the arse - Even if they win but play badly. They need to get something sorted out that's for sure. It's not very impressive to say the least!
Maybe your right but he has also said that certain players wouldn't play again if they didn't pick their act up after a couple of performances. Not that we have seen that happen with anyone yet. IMO, there is a unbalanced look to the side. Kuyt and Maxi are no longer playing many games and we are sticking Henderson out wide to accommodate. For me, it is a bit like under Rafa, if we don't have any wingers than don't play a system that needs them. I was happy to see us go 433 but todays game was the wrong match to try it in since they play a 451/433 themselves with Ben Arfa and Gutierrez pushed on meaning our full backs were restricted.
Evening kidda,thought i might see you ejaculating all over our board tonight. I wasn't wrong. I wouldn't exactly describe our predicament as 'hilarious' but from your point of view i suppose it is.
The only point I disagree on is the 4th, Swarbs. In the formation we played today (whether it was right or wrong is another issue entirely), Shelvey was the best person to play there as part of a midfield trio. Adam injured, Maxi can't play central, Kuyt out of favour all season and again not sure he could play central, Hendo playing poor of late...not really any other option. Plus he was probably our best player today so his selection was proved a good decision. If he was worried about happiness so much, I would have expected to see Sterling on the bench again (he probably should have been based on last week's game),
That's part of my point - he acts tough like he's going to give the players a kick up the arse, but when it comes to the crunch he doesn't actually follow through on the threats. Which if anything is worse than saying nothing at all, cos it tells the players that his threats are pretty worthless. Fair enough if he was the best player for the position and system. I just remembered a few of your guys talking about Shelvey and Sterling making noises about wanting to be in the team, then a week later they are both on the bench and a week after that one of them starts. Perhaps nothing major in itself, but in light of the other stuff I mentioned it looks a bit like a pattern.
I think we simply lack the winning mentality. We brought in a number of players who are from smaller clubs who have not challenged for a top 4 spot or win many trophies. Henderson, Carroll, Downing, Adam, Enrique have replaced players like Kuyt, Meireles, Torres etc who are proven internationals with champions league experience and have won league titles. By bringing in quite a large number of smaller club players, the team dynamics have changed and I think the mentality has suffered.
swarbs... sorry but not all you wrote adds up. 1. transfer windows... sorry but if there's no option how can a manager change it? he's dropped downing but can't drop gerrard or adam.. we all saw shelvey the other option here. we've seen henderosn. Mistakes in buying or not... its all about the summer window where threats are concerned. Let me put it this way to you... when evans, rooney and gibson turned up drunk who did ferguson boot... not the hapless evens, not 250k per week rooney.. no he sold gibson to everton cos he could afford to let him go. Thats one sort of message but rooney will do it again won't he? 2. I'm pretty sure that mr ronaldo was given a different role cos he wasn't bothered to defend. putting him in the box where he could do less damaged than on the wing in defnese paid of big time for ferguson... is that handling anyone? Suarez if anythign is starved of ball the same as carroll and to be frank he's hunting for it just like ROONEY does.. sides love to see rooney back in midifled making sideways passes. again if our midfield was in anyway decent and adble to stand up and hold possession and create chances we'd score more. 3. morale? pah.. we won a cup in feburary. we scraped by in the final. we lost to your lot for the reasons outline in midfield and they've not improved one jot. they've got worse actually. morale is a symptom of losses not the cause of them. once we sort the basics and get agger and jonhson back in alongside an honest pair of players in the middle (spearing and hednerson is all we've got IMO) then we'll do ok.
Gibson was supposed to be sold in the summer but his wage demands were too big for Sunderland. Him being sold to Everton in the transfer window had cock all to do with his dinner with Rooney and Evans. They also didn't turn up drunk, Fergie punished them for breaking curfew not drinking excessively which they didn't. None of them were selected for the next game which we lost at home to Blackburn and which could ultimately cost us the league title. If it does it will be the player's fault not Fergie's as he showed strong management to demonstrate that he sets the rules at United. Poor example MITO and also factually inaccurate.
this is true but he stayed and you played him. If you or i stayed out til oh i dunno 2am or something and went to train the next day as mid 20's fit men i am willing to bet we'd not look as tired as all that.. the fact is they were bleary eyed so falling down drunk no but i'm willing to be it was obvious they were on the wine. Were you there to say they were not red eyed and smalling of the fruits of the vine? The point is not about that however, the point is mr ferguson could not afford to "punish" rooney but he could ship out gibson stright away as a message and IMO thats what he did. Everton don't come a knocking for nothinng especially when broke and i'm sure ferguson rang up his mate moyes and told him he could have the lad. that as much of a guess as you telling me they were just out late. The best i can say is both theories have equal merit.... though making a public statement about not being fit to train would be to my mind still be a lot more to do with drink that it would be to do with a few yawns... I wonder which f the three puked on the pitch? We've all played sunday league and seen someone do this.... BTW seeing city totally bottled it the blackburn game won't cost you anything. City lost the title away to swansea IMO, since they have gone behined they look even more nervous and i think now the manc derby is a dead rubber mathc. utd to be 5 point sup by the time it comes round.
Some good points Swarbs...There may well be some truth in your words...... The only thing i would disagree with is the fourth point. Shelvey has been on the bench ever since he came back from blackpool, just hasnt got on the pitch. All round though very true....Some definate ass kicking is required in our dressing room...
1. What's the distinction between a "happy" squad and a united squad? Unity is more important than you give it credit for. I'm not sure you recognise this. 2. Did you not see the cull Kenny performed when he first came in? Do not think he hasn't got the balls. When he says they won't be here for long he mean players will find they get the same treatment Konchesky and Poulsen got. They were given a chance to prove themselves, then shipped out. Kenny got rid of Phil Neal years ago because Neal wouldn't call him Boss. Yeah, sure he's trying to be too friendly with the players. 3. It took two years for Fergie to speak to Rolando about his diving. Even the players were getting sick of being tainted with it. 4. Maybe SHelvey had a moan, Kenny told him to work harder and Shelvey did. Rafa did the same to Benayoun and Babel, who both improved enough to earn starts. I also don't think you've considered that once the slim chance of 4th was gone it became open season for youngsters. Shelvey may also have earned a place simply by not being part of the QPR/Wigan games. Apart from a slagging by you and the Bitters there's little difference between 5th and 17th in the league now. We've got silverware and we're in Europe. FSG will be happy with that for a first season coming back from where we were under the final days of H&G. Few of the kneejerk critics seem to realise just how far back we'd slipped. Kenny may have a big gross spend blah blah blah but we needed to spend £50m just to get back to where we were. We have a morale issue but it's because everybody knew 4th was gone and the league no longer inspires players, especially as they tire towards the end of a season and with an important semi-final coming up. We saw what the pressure of the Carling Cup silverware put on them for the final. You might also want to explain why Rooney can call Fergie a liar over his ankle injury and call the Glazers out on the squad erosion, erosion which is clear this season as Utd mirror Liverpool in their inability to fight on more than one front - domestic cups for Liverpool but poor league performance, the league for Utd but with atrocious and embarrassing European runs. If you can call them runs. More like very short walks. And what did Fergie do? Shipped Rooney out to the US for his "ankle injury" (i.e. hide him from the media) while he talked the Glazers into giving him a big bung to shut him up. That's not discipline.
not one manager at chelski has dared touch lampard or terry. they've all got the sack in the end. I'm glad swarbs holds us to higher standards than chelsea.
Muppetfinder - I disagree in that there is a big difference between finishing 5th and 17th. I want us to finish as high as possible for pride. Do I want to be below the likes of Everton, Sunderland etc? No I certainly don't. My biggest concern is the culture and spirit of the club - we lose our heads if we concede. No self belief or confidence.
True, but then given you aren't getting 4th and are already in the EL, why not play a few kids and drop a lot of the senior players. It sends a message that they definitely aren't irreplaceable and will be on their way out if they don't buck their ideas up. After all, the aim is to get them to perform better, not just sell them. Like with Rooney - SAF dropped him against Blackburn even tho we didn't have great options. We lost the game, but Rooney got the message and has since scored something like 16 goals in 16 games and we have 28 points from our last 10 league games. He got that role after he'd proved his value to the team in 2007. Once he'd proved he could deliver 20 goals a season and be one of the top three players in the world, SAF was happy to give him the freedom he craved. But he had to prove himself first. If Suarez can step up and scored 20 goals a season then he'll earn the same role in the LFC team, but until then I don't see why you'd treat him any different to anyone else. I'm talking more about the focus on morale rather than the actual morale itself. Trying to keep everyone happy is damn near impossible, but it seems to me to be what Dalglish is trying to do. Gibson was on his way out already - he would have been transferred in the summer had Sunderland not pulled the plug at the 11th hour and had only played two games all season. Unity is the key thing. The mistake is to assume that a happy squad must be a united squad. Some of the best managers unite their squad by making them unhappy - telling them everyone is against them, highlighting mistakes and always driving them forwards. I saw the cull, but then it's a lot easier for managers to ditch players they didn't sign than those they did. Even ones like Wenger and SAF can have problems with it - both were willing to ditch established players like Merson, Harston, Whiteside and Stapleton when they arrived, but kept players like Silvestre, Squillaci and Gibson in the squad for too long. True, but then Ronaldo was a raw 18 year old stepping up to a big club for the first time. Suarez has had three or four years as a top player - he should have the mental toughness to deal with it better than Ronaldo was doing at the time. You could be right. I guess we'll find out on the 14th. And you say we're the bitters You tend to forget that when Rooney refused to sign a contract SAF dropped him and put him up for sale until Rooney came back to the negotiating table. And ultimately unless you believe the S*n and the Daily Fail you don't have the slightest clue what happened in the negotiations or what offers were made or accepted. Besides which, the performance of the Utd team over the past two years indicates that whatever SAF did, it worked
