Hmm, Iqbal I dont think you can completely say that all signings were Bates' fault. Grayson made bad decisions, signing Pugh when we didn't need him and coulda been spent elsewhere for example. Bates admitted that he had stopped one transfer at that was Grayson's last transfer request but he made it clear that that was the first time ever, whether you believe it or not is entirely different but you can't get Bates' words and turn them against him, he never said 'at least one'. I do think Grayson had lost the dressing room and he was showing signs of a desperate man and it was just a matter of time before he was gonna get the sack, the timing was poor but he did need to go. Saying that however I do believe that if he had stayed we'd be in the top 6 right now
And what about Williams, who Bates likely gave orders to anyway so that players could be vetoed? Even if you do believe a serial, possibly pathological liar which is quite a stupid thing to do, it's glaringly obvious that his dunce had Grayson by the balls as well. Everyone 'thinks' these cliche manager criticisms whenever anything goes wrong at a football club ever: 'Lost the dressing room' 'Tactically inept' 'Naive' 'Shagging X, Y and [insert player's wife's name here lolzozlz] behind the scenes' 'Not got his heart set on it' 'Had an argument with [insert player's name here lololol]' There's rarely any proof for them. Watch people start trotting them out when Warnock underperforms next season, it'll be hilarious. Your last sentence sums it up - we would be in the playoffs if he were still here. Warnock has failed to utilize our attack, and goals win games last time I checked, especially in a division like this where firepower is more important than defence. This sure isn't Serie A.
If the rumours are true that a condition of the loan contract was that we bought Pugh at the end of it, then that purchase was a contractual obligation that was only there because we needed the player desperately to fill a gaping hole in our team.
But the gaping hole in our team is in central defence, not a position Pugh plays, so why waste money on him? It seemed Grayson signed players first and then thought about their best position second, so for the opening game of the season he starts with the inept O'Dea at left back, thinking he could do a job there, then realises he's even worse at LB than he is at CB. So with Gradel wide left, Clayton and Brown in the middle, there's no place for Pugh, with the gaping hole in centre defence still unplugged and a large percentage of his transfer budget is left rotting on the bench. Then Gradel is disgracefuully sold, and having by chance realised White's best position is LB, he's forced to play Pugh wide left. After a few games he realises Pugh's no replacement for the brilliant Gradel, and proceeds to play Pugh at LB, thinking White's pace would compensate for the departed Gradel. So now he's reached the point where he has two left-sided players playing out of position. There was too much of this square pegs in round holes team selection throughout Grayson's reign. Scattergun transfer policy, buy an average player and hope he can adapt to two or more positions, six below-average CB's and yet only one player for each FB position and no cover, where he was forced to play young midfielder Zac Thompson at RB. Grayson had a limited budget but could have spent it more wisely. He was too young and inexperienced for a job of this magnitude, and he was the wrong appointment at the wrong time in his career. I didn't like his mistakes being dismissed as "it's ok, he's still learning" - he should have been 'learning' somewhere else, and thankfully, now he is.
LiE Unfortunately, it is Lees who is the gaping hole in our defence, and I think he was only getting away with his mistakes because he was from our own academy. He needs to start his summer holidays early, and return for a few weeks of one-on-one training. O'Dea has been great recently, best CB on the books. He is the only one I would be happy to have at the club next season
666, My point was O'Dea's no LB, and nor is Pugh, so why waste money on Pugh when Grayson's budget was so limited and specialist cover at LB could have purchased instead, which would have allowed O'Dea to start the season in his natural CB position. We didn't need Pugh then, and we don't need him now, a waste of money when there's so little available.
Pugh was originally played at LM so I think he was bought as a indirect replacement for gradel rather than as a LB
True, but there's no proof he didn't either. It certainly smelled like it True, but headless chickens can. I'm not saying they weren't triers. They were simply a disorganised, ****e team. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but he did fail. Look at the goals conceded - not just the number, but the manner in which we lost them too. That's because he failed to buy a ****-off CB that could organise the defence on the field. If he had forgotten about 2 or 3 of his failure CBs and used the cash for a decent CB, we might not be having this conversation. Let's face it - even Lees wasn't in his plans. Lees was an emergency knee-jerk. O'Dea consistently couldn't kick his own arse until Grayson went. He's far from the finished article, but what a change when a manager who knows what he's ding comes along. Wowee!! This is shocking news to me. How can you function without a scouting team? Surely it's just a rumour & not a fact? Can you reveal your source for this revelation? Quite agree, but every one of those signings was made for L1, not the Championship. Who did he sign in the last 18 months in this mould?
He's not the same type of player as Gradel though, so I can't see how Grayson could have seen him as a replacement wide midfield player, so what was the point of spending the best part of £500,000 on a player who doesn't really fit in anywhere when the centre of defence needed reinforcing? Waste of money.
I think he was bought purely & simply as a utility player to fill the gaps in our gorgonzola squad. Can't think of any other logical reason. And tbh, he can do a reasonable job in a number of roles - sure & dependable rather than a game-winner.
Pugh arrived on loan in September. Maybe if Gradel hadn't been sold he would never have even been considered for that LM slot. He scored in the 1-0 win over Pompey and opened the scoring against Donny. He has played in 3 positions this season so is an excellent utility player.
That's not strictly true. We had Kisnorbo back, and all the signs were that he was going to be the dominant defender we needed, and would partner young Bury Player of the Year Lees well in defence. O'Brien, O'Dea, Bromby and Bruce looked like average back-up before tantrum, ****-up, vanishing act and vanishing act respectively. We had to panic-buy Pugh after Bates' panic-sale of Max Gradel, a position that's still not adequately been filled to this day thanks to that tosser Townsend. Pugh was always there to be a utility player and hasn't looked bad for us in his natural CM position, so I don't think a 250k initial outlay swallowed up a major chunk of the budget, and he was a player we needed and still should be using more than we do - he should have played instead of Clayton, for instance, against Forest instead of being brought on at LB. And yet even the best-qualified person for the job can't strike a balance between our attack and defence. Says it all about the standard of players Grayson was forced to bring in. All managers are still learning, and Grayson is now as experienced as many managers at this level and below. He did play a few players in dodgy positions, but doesn't every manager? Aidy White has been crap at RM for me, Pugh looks suspect in defence, and I think Snodgrass is better on the flank myself. All of those are Warnock innovations, but we're not complaining about them because generally, they were done for a reason. They were more organized up front than we are now, that's for sure. And I don't believe that it's a sign of headless chickens to win games late on. It's a sign of spirit and determination. If the dressing room were lost, the players would be huffing and puffing after 85 minutes, not trying to get that late goal. As it was, they did try their best. There were some veiled criticisms of Grayson from players who'd been out of the team, but hey, that's going to happen under any manager that doesn't play the worse squad players as often as they'd like. He couldn't because we have a wage cap of 11k. Bates didn't fund him enough for him to get a ****-off CB leader type. Not Grayson's fault at all, and Darren O'Dea has actually looked like the closest we could get to that player in terms of cheap/free/reject/barrel-scraping material, so he should be commended for ekeing out what he could with his meagre resources. It seemed Lees was being given three or four out of the first five games to impress, and he did, so he was kept. So really, he was in Grayson's plans, and the Club made no secret of that fact as soon as he returned from Bury. Warnock knows what he's doing defensively, but can't get us to score for ****. As I said above, in this division, that's not good news, and not a sign of a manager who knows what he's doing. Of course if he's backed over the summer and can bring in his own players, it may be a different scenario. But we should still be getting more goals with the squad we've got, even if they are average. 0-0s and X-0 losses won't get us anywhere. I hint sarcasm. The fact we have one scout should be shocking news, that's the thing. Mervyn Day left the club a while ago, and no-one else works for us in that capacity. Williams is king. How can you function without? It's pretty bloody difficult. Like I say, all it leaves you with is Premiership and Championship rejects, unless you're willing to ditch training and scour the country for talent yourself. And that's what Warnock's got to work with too. No-one, because classy defenders too expensive at this level. It's quite simple. God above, Leicester paid close to 4m for Matt Mills. That says it all - attackers at this level are ten-a-penny and you can get a good run going just by being in and among the goals (us last season, Blackpool, Peterborough for portions of this season), but to get top defenders in will cost you major dosh or major scouting (like Sol Bamba who was brought in from Hibs). That's why Grayson could ultimately never fix the defence. Hey honey. Looking forward to us doing the double over you again next season? LOLOLOL
Iqbal, my typing's not up to this. Gonna but out. Too much to say. Would love to sit down over a pint & put the world to rights. Available anytime, just let me know.
I'm not saying I believed him or anyone else should, I just do not like it when people take statements and add in a word to completely change the look of the statement. I'm not saying your false, its just something that annoys me You need to remember I was pro-grayson. I think he did a fantastic job but it was only a matter of time at the end, why wait? I do believe we would be in the top 6 had he stayed but I also think if we appointed a good manager we'd be in the top 6 at the moment. Grayson was not going to get us promoted and even if he some how miraculously did then he would no way be able to step up to the prem, he just does not show enough improvisational skills to do that and also his signings were poor and I don't mean that in the sense of not good enough, I mean that in a sense of those players are not needed. He could spent money on a CB but instead spent it on other positions that weren't really required. You are still able to back out of those deals if you do not see them good enough to play in your team likewise if the selling club now needs him, they do not need to sell. It is merely saying we have a headstart to sign the player ahead of anyone else Completely agree, and because we wasted that money, we then needed to go and get someone in january on loan that could do the job (townsend), so we signed 2 players when we only needed to sign one
Due to the lack of ambition shown at Leeds by the owners it must have been an absolute nightmare when strengths were turned into weaknesses for a few extra £££'s. Strength: Gradel Johnson Howson Kilkenny Snodgrass Becchio If we'd have kept those players and added Clayton, Nunez, White and Lees on the back of loan spells to the squad we'd have been in a much stronger position than last season. Then just 1 or 2 signings in the defence and fans would have been very happy and we'd have been in a position to compete this season.
