Freedom of speech is not limited at all. In the US, libel, slander etc are civil actions against damages caused by speech - that is not a curtailment of speech at all, it is an equitable balance of rights versus responsibility not to cause damage. Regardless of the content of the speech, the issue before the civil court generically is are there material damages for which the court can grant relief not that a person has said something they shouldn't have or might have hurt somebody's feelings. Perjury, bribery etc are actions predicated on speech, or the lack thereof. Perjury is the violation of an oath and obligation to testify truthfully under special circumstances that the person has chosen freely to accept - if the person chooses not give such testimony, or does not wish to be bound by oath then there are other rights they can assert to remain silent and not testify - effectively not to participate, but if a person participates then they are basically obligated not to cause damage to others and again the damage must be material not perceived. "Speaking against the government" is not a criminal violation in the US. What is not well understood is that the "freedom of speech" right in the first ammendment of the US Constitution is not a right granted to the people but an explicit statement of constraint on government conduct prohibiting it from making laws that constrain the right to free speech that exists a priori - i.e. free speech supercedes the existence of government as a natural right that government is prohibited from interfering with. The constitutions of each State have their own expressions of such constraints on the conduct of their governments with respect to free speech and other naturall freedoms (search and seizure, due process etc) that in some cases are even more constraining than in the US Constituiton. Put another way, in the US the "people" is the sovereign and the government its/their subject; as opposed to in the UK (hope I am getting this right) where the Crown is the sovereign and the people its subjects. This role reversal is an important and often not appreciated distinction. Of course there is theory and practice and the difference between the two is where trouble starts and over 200 years there's been all sorts of agendas to spread the gap. But still in the US, the government does not issue or grant rights, the rights exist in absolute terms and are an attribute of being a person, the debate is over how government attempts to weasel its way around its constitution to erode them. At least this is my perspective.
If by that you're suggesting the U.S is a freer society then you're deluded, mate. Tell that to the women in Texas who want abortions who, because of a recent State law are forced - yes forced - into having ultrasound examinations whether they like it or not. Or maybe the women prisoners in most of the states who are forced into delivering their babies while still handcuffed to their bed. Or why the U.S was the only country apart from Iran that until recently executed juvenile offenders, who still get life without parole even if they committed the offence when they were 14 (currently being challenged int he Supreme Court). I lived in San Francisco for a while and in my experience, although I like the U.S and its people very much, some of their so-called 'cherished' values are in fact rather skewed. Much greater censorship, particularly in the Bible bashing south. Crazy laws like the outrageous (bordering on racist) Alabama immigration laws that have caused such a furore. Yet it's OK to go to a store, show ID and by a device that can blow a man's head off because the Constitution says it's your right. Not for me I'm afraid. The Founding Fathers had all the right ideals for sure but got it horribly wrong in the end. Maybe that's not their fault but a failure by those that followed. Just my opinion.
KJ - you are absolutely correct and I harbor no delusions. As I have said earlier, freedoms are great in principle, but they are tangibilized by the good faith and good will of others, and defending them without the resources to do so is impossible. When push comes to shove, if you don't have those resources you don't have the freedom. Over here, hypocracy abounds as does mindsets (often based on this religion or that) that eschew common sense and rationality. Extreme minorities are overwhelming the silent majorities - your Texas example is a classic - there is a cultural war being fought. This election cycle is going to be a potential water shed moment as the highjacked Republican party stands up a candidate that must run centrist to be elected but to do so will cause scathing contempt and retribution from dominant, mindless (IMO) extremists that appear to exert control. It's a reality that is becoming stranger than fiction every day. So sit back and enjoy the circus - what you see on TV is going to be more bizarre than anything you've ever witnessed. What is perhaps little known is that the number of registered independents in the US is a super majority over those registered for both parties combined - it's a dirty little secret that is little discussed because in US terms it speaks to the irrelevance of both parties in the thinking of the majority, a majority that is trending centrist (whatever that really means).
Back to football for me - can't wait for Saturday. Another SOPCAST for live coverage, another commentary in a foreign language that will sprinkle the term Swansalona - it's the only bit I understand.
Don't bring the tone of this Swansea forum down by mentioning her name please! I'm being as restrain and peaceable as possible under such extreme provocation!..................... please log in to view this image
Right, don't anyone mention Thatchula please we don't want this thread turning into a discussion about that blood sucking bitch. I'm going to excercise my right to freedom of speech instead. In my opinion this bloke Stacey is a knobhead. It doesn't matter what colour or nationality Muamba is he is a human being and that's it. Football fans of all clubs have cone together and we all want a speedy recovery for Muamba. Anyone wishing a young man dead or making racist comments about him whilst he's been fighting for his life should be given a public flogging.
Very true. Imagine if in our past we had been locked up for being or saying something offensive to somebody...90% of the population would never be out of jail Still as long as you keep it among friends
Hi siam. Slightly off topic,I know ,but I have been reading about some airport scams where you are,regarding people being falsely accused,and arrested,for supposed thefts in the duty free shops. Large payments having to be made to police,etc., to be allowed to leave. Have you come across anything? It's a worrying trend,if true.
I hate airport scams. That one sounds horrendous. Watch out in the duty free shops in Sharm-el-Sheikh if you're ever there. Particularly departures. They tried to charge me £8 (that's right Sterling, not Egyptian Pounds) for a bottle of water. I think they are relying on tired holidaymakers not checking properly. Don't tell the tourist police - they're all in on it.
