Over the last few years we have been financially mugged,why, how. Firstly we bought S Marlet, for what 12m,in todays rate 13, at least. A Johnson 10m +, And now Ruiz,another 10 mil,not sure about the future of Ruiz but so far he has shown nothing to suggest he is worth half that fee. My point being is that once a manager has bought expensively,to save face, they appear very reluctant,to admit there mistakes. Result is that the team suffers through being virtually a man short,your views please.
I think it's overstating the case to say Ruiz has shown nothing to suggest he's worth his fee. At the very least he's shown flashes; what he hasn't done is consistently show that he's worth what we paid. Jol, and Hughes before him, have been criticised on this board for being unwilling to lose face by dropping particular players. I've never been convinced that the criticisms are fair. An alternative interpretation of events is that the player still has the manager's confidence. In a results-oriented business, I don't believe any manager capable of reaching this level will continue picking a player to save face if the consequence is poor results and a greater likelihood of losing their job. We may not always agree with Jol's selections (I know you don't, Valjing, as AJ keeps playing!) but I genuinely believe he picks the team that he thinks is best for Fulham, not the one that's best for his ego.
totally understand your comments Roscafre. I kind of feel the same way. I think it was best summed up in another thread. The 442 system doesn't suit Ruiz's style. So I'm sitting on the fence as to whether we've wasted our money. I think he needs time. He was very lightweight when he arrived, he's built himself up and I think he needs games now.
I think that's part of the game. Paying big money for a player always has risks - look at the money Chelsea coughed up for Torres. By in large, though, I'd say Fulham has done a great job avoiding those kinds of disasterous purchases while unearthing some real gems at bargain-basement prices. Chris Smalling and Clint Dempsey come to mind. Dempsey cost less than 2mill and he's probably worth 10. Smalling was 200K and we sold him for 8mil as I recall. Schwartzer, Hangeland, Murphy, Duff, Sendros were all free or dirt cheap, and look at the value we've gotten from them! More to the point, 12 months ago Dembele was looking like a waste of money. But now people are talking about him going to a big club or 15mil or more. I think Ruiz will blossom, but if he doesn't, at least we didn't pay Torres money for him.
Senderos? Value?? Dembele didn't come to Fulham with a huge reputation, he was something of an unknown entity. Ruiz however was the top scorer in the Dutch league for a title winning team. Not to mention the fact that Dembele cost less than half as much as Ruiz so expectations were not so big.
We have had a number of players who have started on a bad season and later succeeded. Ruiz could still come good and the cheers when he came off on Saturday will have hit his confidence. I feel a bit sorry for him. He has proved himself a good player before coming to Fulham. He frustrated the hell out of me, so hard as it is to say, I think we just need to give him more time and maybe look to change the position he plays. Our position in the league is safe, I say we get behind him and encourage him, otherwise yes it will be a waste of money.
Ruiz looks to me like a confidence player. He clearly does have talent and vision - the outrageous finish against Bolton and the sublime chip against Everton show what he can do. I think there are a number of reasons why he isn't flourishing at Fulham. First, Jol hasn't settled on what to do with him yet. He doesn't look comfortable on the right, and is always wandering out of position when he plays there. Second, he still hasn't adapted to the physical side of the PL and simply gets bullied too often by opponents. I don't know what the answer to this one is, other than more hours lifting weights in the gym. Third - and I think this is the biggest issue - he's spent the last three years playing for a team that doesn't lose as often as Fulham and scores a lot more goals. During his three years there Twente finished 2nd, 1st and 2nd. That's got to come as a shock to the system for a player who so clearly thrives on confidence. Whether he will ever show the form that he did in Holland I don't know, but one thing's for sure, getting on his (or anyone else's) back when the team's playing badly doesn't help anyone. Personally, I'd leave him on the bench for a few games and bring him on if things aren't going so well rather than keep starting with him and taking him off after 45-60 minutes, which can hardly help his confidence. But when he is on the pitch we need to get behind him. We should also forget about the fee - Jol has said a number of times that it wasn't the £10m that was reported and even if it was, that's not the player's fault.
Some players take longer to adapt to the Premier League. Drogba was rubbish in his first season for Chelsea, Nasri took awhile to show his ability too, as did Vidic. They don't adapt if you don't play them so you can see where Jol is coming from, also publicly admitting fault is as good as publicly saying the player he bought is ****, that would kill their career at Fulham as well as killing any chance Fulham had of getting decent money for him.
Totally agree, a lot of good points there. I think he has shown some good form while he's been here (a few games over Xmas - remember the "Three Amigos"?) and he's dipped again. He's shown he can do the business over here, he just needs to show he can do it regularly. I think he'll be better off with a couple of bench appearances to build him up again. Also totally agree with the culture-shock thing - going from a free-scoring, title-winning team to, er, Fulham was never going to be easy! In total agreement, some real sense there Vicious.
A fascinating defence of Ruiz is on Craven Cottage Newsround: http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/defending-bryan-ruiz/#comments The author suggests that there are stats to suggest Ruiz was better on Saturday (and other times) than he is given credit for, and that there is a case for persisting with him rather than scapegoating him. I think I go along with the gist of it.
Its been reported by the club and Manager that the fee for Ruiz was not near £10m it was more like £6.5m. People said the same about Steed Marlbranque when Tigana bought him. All he used to do when we first bought him, was run around in figures of 8 and lose the ball. He learned to adapt, and turned out a good player. So it doesn't matter how much we paid, it's if a player can adapt to the League. Marlets transfer figure was inflated by agents fees, Fulham didn't realise that Lyon were paying two brothers who were the agents £4.5m of the fee for acting on behalf of the club and player. That's why MAF took them and Tigana to court (and lost). He thought Tigana had been part of that group as he had previously worked as a players agent in partnership with these two brothers. It was one of the reasons MAF tried to bring in Baresi as Director of Football during Tiganas period.
Ruiz is being played out of position at the moment. His best games have been when he's put on the left. On the left he has that little bit more time to shift it on to his good foot- on the right he has to constantly cut in, which brings him into traffic. He needs a bit of space around him, either on the left or somewhere we've not seem him yet- on the shoulder of Pav. I'd quite like to see us play with a left footer on the left, and a right footer on the right. Whilst we have full backs that do not offer much going forward we need to use the flanks, at the moment they are completely empty- everyone is in the middle. The main issue with the system I am proposing is that it leaves Dempsey out.
Lets not forget that with any foreign player there is also the family side of things. Settiling on to your wok is one thing. You've then got to settle in to a new life abroad, new home, new everything. It could take people a long time to adjust if things don't go too well outside of work. Just saying.
Agreed Craving, but Ruiz had two people here that should have made his transition much more smooth: Dembele and Jol, both of whom will have interacted with him in the Dutch League. I appreciate that not everyone comes to the PL and has an instant impact like Pog, heck even Dempsey took a while to get off the ground, but Ruiz will be under intense pressure to step it up next season.
And that pressure will only be greater if we cheer when he's subbed and generally get on his back. We (the fans) need to cut him some slack, for the good of the team.
Dang - some people have the shortest memories. In Ruiz' defense, let me point out the list of late bloomers for Fulham: Baird - brought in by Sanchez and roundly dismissed as crap for the first year he played with us. Dempsey didn't score a goal in his first five months with Fulham, fortunately for us breaking an ugly drought against Liverpool to keep us up. Zamora - scored about 6 goals his first year. He also notched about 20 assists. Dembele - Was crap last year - and he still has just one or two goals this season. Pog - has not scored in the last two games. All of these people (aside from the joke about the Pog-meister) have gone on to be important current or former members of this club. So why not give Ruiz a break? He's clearly an great talent who just needs a little more time to settle in.
Baird - Has proven himself to be a steady member of the squad, nothing exceptional. Plus he didn't cost anywhere near what Ruiz did. Was poorly managed by Sanchez, never was a poor player. Dempsey - Was barely used under Coleman. Zamora - I think you will find that more people were happy to see him leave than they would have been to see him stay. Dembele - Wasn't crap last year
Ruiz is taking his time to adjust to many aspects of the premiership. He clearly has been struggling with the amount of time he gets on the ball, he is a player who is skilful but he will have to get used to the fact that he is going to get closed down instantly. I have read a few times that for Costa Rica he plays off the striker and thisis where he is most effective, making late runs into the box and getting goals. I think that Jol does not see him as a striker or partner of a striker, so he is not only having to adjust to the pace of the game but also playing a new position. He is a quality footballer, we just need to get him playing in the correct position. He will come good.
This begs the question, if this is Ruiz's best position then why will Jol not play him there? In my opinion, if there were no signings in midfield next season and everyone remained, this should be the midfield/attack Pogrebnyak Dempsey Ruiz Frei Dembele Diarra
?!?!?! Zamora was class in our Euro year, and wasn't bad last season and also had injuries. The only people were happy in any sense to see him go was because he was (allegedly) the source of unrest, and he wasn't up to scratch since the leg break. Dembele was great for a couple of games at the beginning of last season, then was distinctly average for the rest.
