Maybe its just me but i can't see much between the two incidents (Hamilton/Maldonado @ Monaco last year) and then there is also the possibility that Maldonado purposely put grosjean wide rather than understeered wide for which i gave him the benefit of doubt at the time.
I thought it was all Hamilton's fault last year, especially the incident in Monaco. Last week in Melbourne it was 100% Maldonado's fault as Grosjean had given up the place and more than enough room to pass. Maldonado acted in my opinion as if he were alone on the track.
I have to disagree, there is no similarity between the 2 incidents. Lewis in Monaco was a lunge into a narrow corner where the perimeter barriers prevented Maldanado from being able to give room - not that he should have had to. In addition Lewis effectively T-Boned the Williams and had no claim on the corner. Maldanado in Austriallia had effectively won the corner by being more or less alongside at point of turn in under braking. Gorsjean was probably to weak in defending the corner in the first place and even allowing Maldanado a clear inside line on the corner. In defence of Grosjean, Maldanado did lean on him but taking into account that they were fat with fuel I would be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt in what some may say was running him out of road? Also you have to take into account that Grosjean's front wheel hit the rear of Maldanado's (which is why it broke) and would indicate that the corner had already been lost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHlsOYOIns I dont see how you could compare the 2 incidents, but opinions should be discussed - hence the forum.
I was going from memory to begin with but I've just re-watched it here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf4HZ5cpG4U&feature=youtube_gdata_player And to be honest Hamilton is pretty much as along side him as what he was to grosjean, then if you pause it mid apex, check out how much kerb Maldonado takes! Defo more than you would normally! And then looking at your video, it actually looks like Maldonado briefly straightens up his wheels just before he hit the "exit kerb". This along with the aggressive swipe on Hamilton at spa after quali would suggest he's quite and aggressive little character! never actually noticed before but then not really seen alot of him in action.
i'm not saying hamilton was or wasn't at fault in monaco but that the two incidents are fairly similar and wondered why there was not even an investigation. infact i'd actually say monaco was a daring attempted pass whereas melbourne's was more of an unnecessary show of aggression.
Vis-a-vis Sunday's race, the pundits said it was a racing incident, the stewards saw no problem but, hey, a thread that attacks Lewis and Maldo at once is probably an opportunity too good to miss. That said, both of them can be very aggressive and that's why I like to watch them.
All last season, the rest of the field too it as a givewn they could crash into hamilton and the press and FIA would blame it on hamilton! Seriously it not worth even bringing in up , as the Hamliton haters will go jihad on your ass lol
Grosjean had lost the corner and Maldonado was taking the racing line on the way out. Grosjean should have tucked in behind rather than try and hang on. Inexperience on Grosjean's part IMO to not realise the 'racing rule' of the person ahead being able to take the racing line ( a complete bollox rule IMO as we have seen in previous situations it gives you teh right to run someone out of track) Can't see the similarities from Monaco, the collisions happened at completely different points during the overtakes.
totally Grosjeans fault, he lost the place but then again Maldo left an unpolite amount of space for him.
But fault is the key issue. Lewis was deemed to be at fault and hence was punished. Maldanado won the corner and the impact happened after the apex. Deemed a racing incident and hence no fault to either driver! In relation to the aggression statemnet I fully agree but I am prepared to air on the side of caution due to the fuel affect. However, aggression goes both ways and a less aggressive driver would not have attempted the pass Lewis did at Monaco. I personally think the thread is incorrect in comparing the 2 incidents but I agree with the thought process that Maldanado was unsporting - maybe that should be the thread topic?
He won GP2 mid season did he not? i don't think he lacks racecraft/experience but yeah i agree with the racing rule bollocks (is it even a rule? or a "gentlemans agreement"?), maldonado for me should have gave him a cars width, he would have still had the inside line for the next corner and they'd both have lived to tell the tale. what would he have been saying had it went the other way and he got the damage rather than grosjean i wonder?... i'm not saying they are identical, at the end of the day the end result is similar. Guy goes up inside contact is made with other guy, other guy retires. But you could argue that on both occassions Maldonado did the steering work which lead to the contact.
I really don't think the incidents should be compared. Every incident is unique and should not be used to conclude anything about another.
The incidents are in now way similar. It's more like Hamilton's move on Webber on the exit of turn 2 in Germany last year where Lewis ran Mark wide and forced him to yield, the difference is Grosjean didn't yield. It's just a racing incident, it was such an innocuous flick, you see cars bang wheels all the time with no damage done (Webber took a clout on both wheels the lap before), if Grosjean had carried on we wouldn't bother talking about this. [video=youtube;M1P3csB3Rgo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1P3csB3Rgo[/video]
Thats my point. The Op is suggesting that the contact is similiar (which it is clearly not) and that common factor is Maldanado! I think?
Grosjean leaving the track was entirely his own doing. Grosjean losing his suspension was entirely Maldonado's doing, and it would've been a disgrace if he had finished in the points.
I dont really understand the thinking behind this. By your statement Grosjean left the track, so how could Maldanado be responsible for Grosjean comming back on to the track and hitting his rear wheel? As I have said above, I think Maldanado was very heavy handed (possibly unsporting) but no different to what a lot of other drivers do and have done over recent races - hanging a driver out/blocking an apex when completing an overtake is technique used to prevent being under pressure into the following corner and is common! It seems to be missed that it was Grosjean's steering input to bring him back onto the racing line which made contact with the rear wheel of the Williams - Maldanado does not steer with his rear wheels. The fact that this incident was not investigated, neither driver formed an open opinion to the press and neither team chose to complain would indicate that there was no blame to proportion to either driver and was a racing incident.
Text is obviously very difficult to gauge the context of sometimes. My perception of your statements is that whilst you claim they are not identical you infer they are similiar - which they are cleary not. Lewis's attempted pass was a lunge which resulted in contact to the rear Quarter of the Williams car and the only steering input by Maldanado was to take the racing line in a corner which was quite clearly his! Maldanado's pass on Grosjean was diffenrent in the sence that Grosjean had conceeded the corner (probably to hold is line for the next, or maybe just caught by suprise?) and Maldanado effectively ran him out of road. As I said, potentially unsporting but typical of a lot of drivers. Grosjean's steering input and Maldando's deep line (almost to the kerbing) created the contact on the rear wheel of the Williams and hence there was no steering input by Maldando. As said by others, Grosjean could have backed out and avoided the collision, like Webber did with Hamilton. I have decided to give Maldanado the benefit of the doubt (based on full tanks) and have no particular liking for the man, his attitude in Spa was a disgrace to the sport! But the original question was "but i can't see much between the two incidents" and for me (and others) there are plenty of differences.
Maldonado had the right to hold the racing line and sweep as wide as he liked in one continuous motion. He did not have the right to turn left and directly into Grosjean while on the outside of a right-hander.
It occurred to me that the reason he did that could have been to collect the back end as it stepped out, or started to step out, under acceleration.
