Just thought I’d explain a few posts I made last week so here goes. Please be patient and if you can’t comment sensibly just don’t post rather than post anything negative or insensitive. On Thursday last week I had the news on the TV and they announced the release of the ‘Hillsborough’ documents. My Portuguese wife asked what it was all about and I started to explain the Hillsborough tragedy. A few words in and I noticed I was trembling a little, a few tears were appearing and I was starting to struggle to get the words out so rather than continue and let my wife see a (mid to late thirties) man crying like a baby I decided I would just go onto youtube and put some footage of it up. The video started and within 5 seconds or so I was a blubbering wreck. This continued for most of the afternoon until I calmed down a little. I spent the whole of the next day with a quivering lip and tears in my eyes reading witness accounts from survivors and ambulance men and players and TV employees at the game reliving what had happened and reading how others had been affected by what happened during and after the event. This was quite confusing for me. I can’t remember much about Hillsborough other than little excerpts and pictures from news or papers and I was pretty sure that I wasn’t there. I knew I had most probably watched it though and being 15 at the time I guessed I would have watched it at home so I decided to ask my Dad if anything happened that day. I asked him and he pretty quickly said ‘No’ and moved the conversation on rapidly. He looked quite upset though and I decided not to pursue the subject. When he went outside to smoke I asked my Mum and she described a picture of my Dad and I being complete blubbering wrecks at the sight of what we witnessed on the TV. Clutching each other desperately. Now this was strange because whilst my only memories of my Dad are of a soft, gentle & caring, quietly spoken man whilst still being built like a tank. He was in his youth quite the opposite. Indeed he was (and he admits ashamedly to this) a full on hardened Pompey Hooligan who would not bat an eyelid before picking any object up and maiming an opposing hooligan. I’ll not dwell on this part because like I say he is ashamed of that section of his life. So to hear he was a sobbing wreck was intriguing (wrong word but I can’t think of another.) My mother carried on: Watching the events of Hillsborough had stirred up ‘locked up’ memories of the Bradford Fire disaster’ which was news to me. My mind had ‘locked up’ 2 events? Surely not. I couldn’t recall that either. I had no memories of either of those 2 days however at this point some vague memories of that day at Bradford were filtering through. Strong memories of my Dad and I clutching each other desperately were flooding me. I had been at the Bradford game aged 11 watching people dying, witnessing the commotion. The Hillsborough Tragedy must have seemed like we were reliving something we had been through. At Bradford many didn’t die from the fire itself. Some were crushed, some were trapped, Children were ‘thrown’ over walls to save them. It was a similar situation to Hillsborough if you ignore that there was a fire. My Dad had never spoken to me about any of this. Apparently he won’t talk about either event to anyone. However now knowing about it, and with some of my memory that my mind had ‘protected’ me from has been restored, it also clears up some other things within my life. I now know why my Dad and I are so so close. Not the normal Father/Son bond. We make a point to see each other each week almost ‘appointment-like’. For us it is more like a ‘best friend’ relationship but much much more than any real ‘best friend’ relationship could ever be. It is almost a hatred of being separated and any excuse to be with each other is taken up (often to my wife’s annoyance. Lol) I now know why I went from the No1 prospect for straight A’s at the age of 11 (final year of primary school in 1984) to a rebel that went dangerously off the rails and only through growing up a little in the last 2 years managed to claw back some subjects to C’s and D’s. I’ve hated myself and also blamed anyone else I can...Parents, teachers for those reckless 3 years wasting what I could maybe have been and now can start to learn to forgive myself. I now know why the one and only time I sat in the Dell as an away supporter (I had always been a guest of IBM prior to that in some nice seats the other side) for the Saints 2 Lincoln 2 game, I was very uneasy. The rickety corrugated metal sides, The open top urinal in a street style alleyway, the amount of wood in that stand. It was a scary moment for reasons I didn’t know. My Uncle who had retired from IBM by then commented ‘my God its a mess over this side of the ground. I now know why my Dad went from a football obsessive going to lots of football matches to someone who would refuse any invite to a football match. I finally talked him into going to a Lincoln game in the late nineties (without knowing what we had both been through) saying I’ll pay for you. It’s last game of the season and its only a fiver. I remember him getting close to the ground, a little nervous now I know what I know but I didn’t notice then. As we enter Sincil Bank getting even more nervous. Entering the actual ground and seeing it all seated maybe relaxing a little. Sincil Bank had undergone serious redevelopment from that disaster onward. Any Imps fan was very proud of their ground for a long long time although it can look quite dated these days and there are of course many former upper league teams now with better grounds in the lower leagues (and now non league.) Throughout the game I guess he was pretty quiet and a bit uptight. This was probably his moment of seeing off his demons after all he was a grown man through both events and maybe his brain had not locked any of it away as mine had. I can’t remember if he was still nervous or not as I wouldn’t have reason to notice that but Lincoln beat Torquay 5-0 in front of a circa 8000 crowd and we left chatting about the football. He hasn’t been to a game since but maybe that was the moment he needed to clear his demons and the past 15 or so years had wiped out his enjoyment of football forever. For me. I now realise I have been quite an uptight person in personality and nature through my adult life whilst maintaining a facade of calm and easy going on the outside. I realise that I have been quite distant to everyone over these years and never really been a people person in this time. I realise that whilst I complain about the modern world and the self self self culture, the facebook generation that plonk their children in front of the TV whilst saying to them ‘Not now I’m doing something’ that I haven’t been much different myself. Project after project, DIY, Hobbies no time ‘wasted’. I think the past week has now allowed me to see that I shouldn’t blame myself or any others for me sinking in those first 3 years of secondary school. I may have gone on to be some top scientist, however I may also have not. I am who I am and my past life has influenced my current life, maybe my future life too, however I can still decide my future and I am alive and well. This is quite timely because I am week 7 of 8 of the New Enterprise Allowance scheme where the government helps people who are on the dole for between 6-12 months become self employed or start a business. I think I am more driven even though all this happened only in the past 5 days and have been working hard into the night to make my business plan and shall continue maybe more ambitiously and optimistically to achieve this goal. I’ve also been annoying the kids this weekend by wanting to be involved in everything they do. They aren’t used to this but I no longer want to be that ‘not now’ parent. I want to give them every moment that they need after all, working from home, self employed I can make my own schedule and ensure they get every moment they need. Its a sad story in one way but a very happy one too in that 5 days can turn several lives around and benefit just as many futures. I don’t think my Dad will ever get over the pain he seems to have but I don’t want to stir up old wounds. Each person deals with these things in their own way. So now you can see what my little ramblings since Thursday have been about and I think this post was important to make. If not to inspire others, convince fans that there is more to life than just football, to encourage fans from all clubs to remember that after all in both of these disasters fans from opposing teams joined together and football rivalries were forgotten if only for one day. Maybe I just needed to get it off my chest so I can move forward. My message? Lets all get on guys. Keep the banter exactly what it is. Forget the sometimes vicious and aggressive posts and just say. Enough and leave the thread. We are football supporters first, and then we are Southampton supporters second. Remember if we didn’t love the sport then we wouldn’t love Southampton or Portsmouth or any team. We love the sport first and it takes thousands of teams to for the pyramid which we all need for our club to exist. I have been a little teary eyed writing this but not like I was on Thursday and I can now move forward, cheer on the Saints and hopefully not moan too much about the little things in life. COYR
You keep following that sense of direction you now have, you will be fine mate. Easy. Nice post, get it of the chest & it does help, it really does.
Your brain protected you from memory of the trauma because you were so young, but the memory returned when you were old enough to deal with it. Don't make the mistake of thinking it has damaged your whole life...as you said, you don't know what you would have been even if the fire didn't happen. It could even have had a positive effect on your personality. Please don't over-analyze. You survived...have a good life and make sure you enjoy it and your family.
Indeed nice words from all but don't worry. I'm not over analysing. Just realising what I have been like and why. I'm a pretty OCD kind of person to the tiniest detail. especially on silly things like money. lol I do the shopping because my wife would buy stuff that isn't important and expensive yoghurts instead of the cheapo ones for the kids etc. She's enjoyed going shopping this weekend and I've been biting my tongue like mad because of all the 'garbage' in the fridge but hey ho. lol I spent a decade from 20 to 30 basically working, then being out of my head EVERY night (alcohol and 'other stuff') then sleeping it off then work again. Don't drink anymore (had a lapse Thursday though) and don't touch 'other stuff'. Unfortunately that has only happened recently and was still doing this routine through the first 5 years of marriage (and first 4 years of being a Father This is more a message to all that bark back and forth to each other that there are more important things even within football. As for the till I was old enough, maybe I think it was more shut out and then watching that footage 'triggered' emotions, not memories. It was my Mum telling me that seemed to let the memories come out. I've never purposefully not watched footage before, maybe my sub-conscious there somehow? Don't know but all's well and I feel really calm and happy since this weekend and not at all a ball of pent up frustration as I have for a long time. Don't expect short posts from now though although I'll try he, he.
An amazing post and wonderful response. Fran's advice is spot on. Life is short, mate, face your skeletons but then live for the future. You take care
There is a lot of people over time that have had to deal with trauma of one sort or another. Trauma comes in many forms not all of them necessarily disasters you describe. All Trauma's have one thing in common they need to be talked about. The next stage is the questions why and possibly who is to blame and of course why me. You have only made the first step to recovery and to coming to terms with what happened. It sounds as if you have done well but you need to talk it through with someone who can help. A very close friend perhaps who you trust implicitly someone that you consider with understand. Your close to your Dad maybe you can help each other who knows........
A very honest post imps and for that I commend you. Obviously a brave individual and I wish you well.
Very interesting read, that opening post. While I running through it, I could sense it was doing you a fair bit of good, to write it. This is a limited medium, this writing thing, especially on a forum about Football, and Southampton FC. You are expected to be a bit two-dimensional, a bit shouty, good for a round, and have no other conversation except any variation on red & white stripes. It's really intriguing to find someone just deciding to post about hidden feelings. Without trying to take your stage, I found a lot of what you said about your education echoed my own. I ended up going to University much later in life, and then really, underneath it all, it was just an exercise in seeing if I could still do it. I could, but it was hard work. I have spent my life shrugging off my family programming. Being the youngest of a generation, I was subject to a lot of advice, but most of it was incredibly parochial and actually quite negative, though well meaning. You know the type of stuff; it's the I-wouldn't-do-that-if-I-were-you stuff. Being the youngest, you listen, until you start saying, but I'm me and I want to do this. Then you realise there's nobody stopping you but yourself. Compared to the rest of my family, I've probably lived three lifetimes in experience. Last year I took up playing the guitar, after throwing it down when I was a teenager because I couldn't emulate Jimi Hendrix after three weeks, with a two-bob acoustic. Would you believe it, Everyone asked me, what do you want to do that for..? Occasionally, I check behind my ears, and they are still dry, just as they were when I started to listen to myself. I hope you reach a state a comfort within yourself as I have managed. And keep on writing those essays. For me, they make a change from mine.
This week, not just on here, has taught us perspective within Football. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter THAT much. Great post Imps.
Every so often, what I read on this board makes me stop and think, and this is certainly one of those occasions. I am glad that you have found it helpful to express yourself and wonder if it might be worth talking to your GP? They might be able to recommend some professional help to assist in working through all this. Your point about the important and unimportant things in life are very well made and I wish you all the very best
Touching words again guys. One that moved me for no actual reason other than another similarity is that I too put the guitar down years ago. Not for frustration of not being able to play as I used to play bass live whilst being able to do a decent job at Rhythm(n) and keyboard (the n in brackets because there is debate on n or no n. lol) A couple of years ago one of those many projects I speak of above which I guess looking back may have been to fill out the possible 'thinking' time was making my own 'Tele' style guitar from scratch. This project lies about 60% complete in the cupboard. It will be completed however 'more important' projects required the money so it awaits it's day. I may give this guitar to my eldest now when complete and share the enjoyment with him. Will then have to make another for my second eldest after though Need a new router first though, I've hammered this one to bits. Useful bit of kit. As for the talking about it/writing it helping. Indeed. TBH I am the sort of person who finds it very hard to talk to others. I call it shyness but it's not really that I don't think. I am completely different on the internet where I have the confidence to talk freely to anyone, after all you can say what you want, cast your opinion with no fear of reprisals etc. Hide behind the keyboard and screen with the pleasure of anonymity as sis often said but the internet has released me a little and I have had the internet for nigh on 10 years. Has helped me come out of my shell where previously I needed 10+ pints to do so No probs with the 'take my stage' comment. I don't see it as my stage. One thing that often annoys me on some threads as I am on about 10 forums on various subjects (need to cut that down for some family time) is that sometimes the 'thread hijack' upsets so many. Conversations are much different and nearly always end up in a different world let alone subject from where they started. I tend to treat this medium pretty similarly, each post being a progression from the initial post and doesn't bother me who started it. Each contributor adds to that 'conversation'. So it's cool I started the thread just to let me do the first post. To say what I needed to say without interuptions as I would face to face with most people. Once it's said that part of 'my need' is done
You've said some very interesting things in here Imps, a fascinating story and I think it's wonderful you've found a medium to portray your feelings honestly without fear - a top function of an internet forum I suppose! I think you've been very brave to post this, and you've received some great responses too.
Mods - please don't embed the following video. The link is enough. If in doubt do not watch!!! This is for those who are to young to remember or don't know what happened. You'll have to ignore the fact that some Lincoln 'fans' (far too many) continue to cheer throughout this. The game was being recorded for highlights as it was the game that should've been Bradford's 'promotion party'. It was controversially aired 'live' as a news broadcast. I have watched this a few times with much less of a problem than when I put Hillsborough on the other night so I am already a little stronger inside. You may or not recognise the commentators voice. Maybe a Yorkshire thing (Lincoln gets Yorkshire TV for ITV. I think it is John Helm who still commentates today. When he says 'The poor man, the poor man is particularly emotional: The live coverage as it was on TV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLjquReTHcU This video I discovered whilst watching things and is rather apt for Saints fans and recent sniping between us and West Ham supporters. The England v West Germany was replayed for the Bradford charity with the original starting line ups. Alan Ball is amongst those interviewed and John Helm commentates just 2 months after the disaster happened: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChZSTO2aQ6E Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx84tOuIHPA Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8oKeeNkiuw Sorry for all these videos and stuff. I am kind of obsessively searching stuff at the mo and moments like the latter 3 are heartwarming and give me a smile.
It just goes to show what a great forum this is. The fact that you feel comfortable expressing such profound personal issues on here coupled with the supportive and considered responses is testament to that. Beddy is absolutely right about the next step. Talking about them desensitises traumatic experiences. Even if you go through a phase of constant repetition daily or weekly it will help. As for your future, it's whatever you want it to be. It's never too late to do anything. You are clearly an intelligent, articulate and passionate person and you shouldn't need any certificates to confirm that!
Amazingly insightful post. I'm sure there are many other in a similar situation to Imps, possibly reading this, who have not spoken about how they truly feel. As BeddyTare said, this is just the first step, and to echo TSS, although this forum is perhaps demanding or expecting of certain things, sometimes it can be a powerful tool when not just used in the regular "pub-style" chat, as I would put it. Clearly Imps has felt better for writing it, and all the best to him. Great post.
I know that this is about Imp and good luck to you....but I want to second HR's quote, I was going to say a few days ago that amongst all the emotions that are posted on this forum, for me, Fran's are spot-on and often reflect what I feel..... so Imp, all the best mate....and Fran, agree you are a saint, keep up the good work.
Why did I choose this forum to write this post and not others? Football in it's truest form is a communal thing. It's something you enjoy through good times and bad with others and not a solitary hobby. Going alone to games is fine because you are amongst others who feel the same way. Whether they are a moaner or a motivator they are still wanting the same thing. However when football is at it's best the actual 'game' only plays a bit part. The whole routine of meeting you pals, going for a few drinks, going to the match, having a few more drinks afterward, maybe (when I was younger. lol) going for a meal, a few more drinks, onto the nightlife. It becomes a whole day of savouring the whole matchday experience win or lose. this is especially true of away days. Therefore a football forum is the ideal place for this thread. All the people here are communal types. The stick together through thick and thin. They experience this week in and week out. Other forums I frequent are only similar in that everybody has the same passion but they are solitary hobbies in essence and that communal aspect doesn't come into it
I am quite blown away by this thread. SS, if we ever come out of hiding we could share some interesting conversations. This post of yours so echoes parts of my life it's uncanny. Imps has been amazingly honest. Maybe best of all is the way that others have responded. Not a single cynical post. You are quite right, Imps, football is a shared experience that brings people together. Good on you for having such courage, and I hope the fact that you've experienced such strong support has been therapeutic.
