Not sure why you're quoting me because I agree with all of that. I also think NB is the right man for the job but I just wish he would be a bit more open to the supporters.
I should have replied to the thread, I just used yours because it was the last post, wasn't aiming at you Craig
for saturday id love to see king- evans/mck- koren- brady we might just have to risk conceding one or two, in order to score more but 0-0 doesnt get you in the play offs.... regarding barmby, i found him a bit irritating last night....i dont mind him publicly sticking up for his players, saying there good etc if behind the scenes hes trying to sort it, but there seems to be very little sign of any loans etc, so it appears he really does think there is enough goals in the team...thats a concern, as i have already mentioned, these problems go back to xmas, when we went 3 games in a row losing 1-0......the early optimism of his early reign is starting to be far outweighed by the goalscoring problems.... im not for one minute agreeing with the people saying he isnt the man for the job by the way, just thinking out loud and saying how it is.
Am i the only one who has seen very little evidence from King to show he has anything to offer us bar another winger who doesn't assist or score? And do you all have short term memory loss, i am pretty sure everyone one of us advocated moving from the old fashioned and dead 4-4-2 to something more modern and all round tactically better in the 4-2-3-1, the system as a whole has a lot more weaknesses, aslong as you get the players playing in that system right. The system is not wrong the players are playing wrong. You should have one holding player in Mckenna, the other one should be the distributor/box-box man which dare i say it Marney could do at this level, where as Evans at times is to slow on the ball and doesn't get forward enough when he does get forward he looks dangerous but he doesn't do it enough. The lone front man needs to be able to hold the ball up, Fryatt doesn't do this, if he doesn't he has to run beyond the defence and stretch the opposition giving the midfield and the 'treqarista' space to play, he doesn't do that. He does a lot of work wide which is a huge fault of his as the lone man if he isn't in the box who is? The wingers for me haven't being a huge problem, i wouldn't say they have played well but they haven't hindered us, just Mclean isn't a winger to be fair to him. At the end of the day going back to the 4-4-2 is going back to something that didn't work previously, we have moved on and tried to modernise our club in a more modern and European system, something i am happy with if we get the players playing howthey should in the system.
I think the system suits our players fairly well on paper but the players just don't attack properly at all. I don't know if it's a deliberate tactic or just laziness but we simply don't get enough players forward fast enough. Fryatt and Koren are usually forward but the wingers don't take up good enough positions and Evans (who I keep going on about but it just doens't make sense to me) doesn't get forward enough. All we have to do is attack with a bit more bravery like the team of 2008 did. They weren't better players but they were much less fearful.
the system would work with the right players, but if you dont have them , then you have to play system where you can get the best out of what you have....we dont have a striker comfortable playing on his own, our wingers dont get in the box, and the 2 deeper midfielders take the word sitting too literally....so at least with 4-4-2 we would have 2 strikers to occupy there defence, and at least one threat from centre midfield...
I agree the system works well on paper, and it does on the pitch look at when NB first started it worked wonderfully, i have no idea why the midfield are not getting forward like they used to and the wingers aren't as potent. But the 4-4-2 does not work well with our players it didn't before what has changed now? Why would it start now when we didn't do it well under NP people should remember that.
worked better then our current system, our lack of goals is close to becoming embarrassing.....id like us to play something more expressive but we need to get some players in to make it work, everybody calls it 4-2-3-1 which looks flash and attacking, but its nearer 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 in reality
one thing I've been mulling over (and it is only a mull) is that as nick has played alongside these players and also as he's new to management, I wonder if he's concerned about his man management ability if he was to bring in anyone significant. I could sit on the seashore having faith that the tide would stop coming in but that doesn't mean it'll happen and eventually after a certain period of time I would be forced to accept my faith and belief was misplaced. at what point does this happen to nick with our impotence in front of goal? Evans hasn't done much wrong but do we need 2 protecting midfielders? McKenna has been class breaking up play and supporting the back 4 and with our defensive capabilities being so strong it's my feeling that an expansive 4-1-3-2 is entirely feasible. Without throwing caution to the wind. McKenna Brady Koren Stewart McLean Fryatt As OLM has touched on, Henderson from Millwall in place of McLean and there's goals in them there hills!
Just seen Ronnie Moore has got the Tranmere managers job again and found this quote, which seems quite apt for this thread. "Every game we play, let's get at them. Let's not sit back and say we're not going to lose here and maybe getting beat 1-0. Front foot, straight from the first whistle, get after them. Get the wide men, put balls in the box and get plenty of bodies in the box I've always been a stickler for 442. That won't change. Wherever I go I like to have 2 wingers. I dont like the 451 formation. I mean, it's alright if you want to defend and counter attack but you have to have the right players to be able to do that. At this present time, I'll be looking to get your wingers in games, passing game, get the strikers working together. How many crosses can we get in. How many shots can we have. I want to be entertaining going forward trying to win the game. It's all about trying to win the game, not sitting back trying to counter attack teams." Anyway I'm going to watch Barcelona and see how they make the 4231 work.
I've always liked 4-4-2 too. It's probably because City have never seemed to do well with 1 up front. Some teams do but it never works for us.
As a spectator, I do like to see two proper wingers,on form, running at defences. So it seems the reason this formation works better for Barcelona is they have Messi and we have Mclean.
aye, i think formations are irrelevant when you have messi....gona check what odds they are to win the champ league again as soon as there back up, cant see them being stopped while he is still breathing..
Looking at the current starting XI, NB is right in saying they have talent but Mclean isn't good enough, I've given him long enough and he wastes far too many chances. Simpson is capable of scoring goals at this level but Cullen & King are being preferred. With our scoring rate we won't be top 6, we'll be 7-10. NB is inexperienced and expecting him to get us in the play-offs first attempt is a bit naive from the fans.
i know what your saying with that last bit, and if we where solidly in mid table then i dont think it would be too frustrating..but the fact is we keep been offered the chance by the rest of the league and keep throwing it back in there face....all these draws and no goals and we are still only 2 points off, when we should be way down the table in with no chance really...
I might have missed something but I don't really see where the McLean criticism is coming from. The way I've seen it lately is that he has created more than the other wingers (except maybe King in sub appearances) purely through his fighting for the ball and tackling back. I think his touch is dramatically exaggerated. He isn't the best finisher going but I'm usually quite impressed with how he brings the ball down in tight situations. I think his decision making is at times a bit silly (there was one occasion yesterday when he tried to cross from the right byline by smacking it with his laces and rather predictably it went miles beyond the goal and out for a goal kick) but I think he's offering us more than Stewart and certainly not worthy of any specific criticism.
You are now defending his touch, oh my days...... How can you say a 4-2-3-1 system is the same as 4-4-1-1, they are completely set up differently, i can't understand how you can consider our wingers alongside Mckenna and Evans in that situation. The best teams in the world use 4-2-3-1, and anyone who say tactics aren't important are wrong, there are reasons each team sends scouts to analyse every inch of a teams tactics.
