Remind me again just what it is you are doing to help the situation? Repeatedly slagging the club off on an internet forum? So helpful
I do not 'slag the club off' I point out where Wenger has made mistakes, and urge him to go. I also suggest we need financial investment, provide access to detailed accounts and a seat on the Board for Usmanov who supposedly now has 30% of our shares. You may not like it - but to me its a contructive way forward. Your 'real support' appears to be Wenger can do no wrong - how sad.
I'll repeat myself, but more slowly so you can perhaps understand better this time... How does repeating the same stuff on an internet forum, over and over and over again, lead to a solution? I really am interested to hear your views.
- I hope to have more fans recognise what is wrong and say so. I also urge fans to write to the Club. What do you propose - apart from protesting outside the Emirates - which I will NOT do? You say you want to hear my views, yet belittle them? Oh contraire.
Some would do well to listen to the views of a long term season ticket holder who's been to watch Arsenal more times than some of you have had hot dinners
I'd agree that mindless "Arsenal are ****" and "the manager is a div" posts are not helpful in general but there are plenty of us who are VERY constructive with our criticisms and offer many alternatives and solutions, the problem is, there are also mindless posts that come from the other lot that pour scorn over these suggestions and do NOTHING to help the situation either. It is only when we remove the 2 extremes do we get reasoned debate - there is nothing I like more than intelligent jousting, I like it when people make me have to think about stuff. Its that old adage, you are halfway to recovery when you admit you have a problem, but half the posters on here don't see it, they continually harp on about bad luck with injuries or we don't have any money, or there aren't good enough players out there to buy, or the stadium debt, or we can't compete with City and Chelsea etc etc. ENOUGH with the excuses ! Wenger has been a fantastic manager for us in the past but too many mistakes are being made by him at the moment so things needs to change. I started a thread about investment being needed and I was pleasantly surprised by the comments on it, it seems many of us on both sides of the fence agree with what Arsenal need to do to move forward. Now .. if only the bloody board and manager could agree the same, Arsenal would become a force again.
i've had a few hot dinners and ive also had about ... 27season tickets and counting .... the support argument should be put to bed now, ive been holier then thou but come on lads we all support arsenal here .... i went to the milan 1-5 away win ... the result score indeed were a bonus to the criac of the trip, the beer the laughs and the wife shopping .. cost me a fortune ... but henry gave me something that the money could not ..... fantastic memories .. i agree that if a supporter wants a gauranteed win or even good performance then they are best putting their cash in a savings account .. football just ain't that predictable. the issue i have we us all is that a) wenger is never wrong .. or b) wenger is never right ... its a polarising of views we now seem to have here. wenger has been given money, if we belive the board and his own comments, he has chosen not to spend or he had indeed never been given the cash .. hence something is a miss here ... who from the club is telling the truth and if they are lies were being told ... ie wenger is saying he has been given cash but when he leaves he does a warts and all "i had my hands tied" supporters can demand the truth but like the real world .... tough, take what your told we could play well v spurs on sunday, get great support from the fans and an uplifting performance from the guys ... and still lose ..... thats what football can do. if we truely believe the quailty and class of this current squad is everything wenger says then i say 7 more years of hurt are on the way regardless of what support they get. I just dont go with this booing during games or expecting cos i've spent 1300 on a ticket it gaurentees success or a trophy .. is does not but what the 1300 does is give me the chance to watch the team i've supported for ever play football and it gives me the right (regardless of what wenger says) to support or criticise what I see ... its all part of our wonderful game and our wonderfull club rambling rant over
In support of the view that fans who invest good money to watch their team perform and thats the very least the team should do, don't forget how many clubs have offered travelling fans refunds or sweetners for abject performances !!! So even the clubs know there is a duty for the team to play with heart and desire at the very least.
It seems the only 'fans' who should have any views are the over 80s who have had a season ticket for 65 years and counting..... My late father-in-law was such a fan ( well, he didn't ever buy a season ticket to my knowledge) but was born near Highbury, played for London Boys in the early 1930s, and didn't feel able to voice criticism like I do. He just took the good with the bad - bless him. Those type of supporter are long gone ( except maybe for CYM?) - these days supporters vary from regulars who can afford the time and money, international fans who couldn't get here, to stay at home ones who watch on TV and the net..... I don't dismiss their views unless they spout rubbish. Too many on here wear the badge of long suffering martyr - and you are welcome to it.
you could play with all the heart and desire you want .. if your not good enough or the opposition is better you will lose and in losing your performance will look poor (most times) .. if the argument is now they must play with heart and passion then for that you need to drop down the leagues a few for the halifaxs and barnets etc. I agree we can demand it and if we dont see our team "commited to the cause" they are open to the tirades currently aimed their way but i saw henry many a game drop to the halfway line for a breather .. out of the game and seemingly not committed to the cause .. the fact its part of his game and when he had the ball he was good enough to make a difference ensured he went without criticism ..... its a fact gary lineker touched the ball 5 times outside the six yard box in his whole professtional career ... did this make him an uncommitted player?? for me, we are simply not as good as the comments the players/boss make .. but as for heart and trying well its tough to call to lay that on all the squad, imo the bone idol russian has never tried for us, chamakh has rarely tried and the not lamented denilson and bendtner were just a wos who showed nothing but spoke like maradonas but the others, sorry i think they do try from walcott to rosicky to diaby to even the much maligned squaillaci ... its just as a team and as a squad they aint that good. the fact they are put on the pitch to repeat the same "i'm trying but just not good enough routine" is testament to the managers mistakes they have gone unaddressed for too long now
several of the Sunderland players 'ain't that good' but they chased , hassled us, made us panicky - and got a spirited victory. It can be done - you have to want it that badly.
berkgamp i agree with that .. cups through the years have shown the giant killing "raise your game for one match mentality" can cause upsets ... i think the title winning teams .. the marathon title not the sprint cups.. is always won but the team with the best players playing as team .. but those players wont get upset too much over a 42 or 38 game season and yes they must show commitment with their ability ... but commitment alone wont get you a title it gets you everton, sunderland stoke and wolves (not to knock those clubs in anyway) a fighting spirit (tv had it but last few games i'd question it) is usually inherent in the man and rarely if ever coached .. but a team of 11 good players trying will beat 11 poorer players who are trying harder .. a few upsets may result but not enough to affect the title.
Do our fans think we send out 11 ( or even 6) players who appear 'up for it' that simplified expression for desire to die for the team? As time under Wenger goes on I think we look less and less 'up for it' - mental strength, if it ever existed in the last 6 years, has been replaced too often by going through the motions.
What you're saying then is this entire forum is pointless as it doesn't actually get anything done, and people aren't allowed to discuss issues related to their own club? You could just as easily have said "Repeatedly praising the club (regardless of whether they deserve it or not) on an internet forum? So helpful " and you'd be making the same (non) point.
This is why I say we don't have steel or leadership. I've played with enough players to know that when a few of your teammates go flying in for tackles, even the most timid of footballer is egged on to do the same. When players start firing up other players in the dressing room, even the quietest player responds. I don't see any of this on the pitch from Arsenal players at the moment. If the pretty football isn't paying off then our desire and determination should be visible and this can quite often be what you need to get you past the finish line.
I logged back in to find I have over 50 replies to my first post, I'm well chuffed. I reply to an earlier message, I am not "Henry's cat" from BBC606 but hopefully my replies will be well reasoned too!! Ignoring some of the arguments I wanted to give my views on Arsenal ... I was a season ticket holder in the late George Graham days to the early Arsene Wenger days including seeing us win the league against Everton with Tony Adams scoring THE goal ... "that sums it all up"!!! Further back I remember Michael Thomas scoring at Anfield in 1989 (from the comfort of my settee) and the joy was immense as apart from the League cup in 1987 we hadn't won anything since the FA Cup in 1979 and before that the Double in 1971. The George Graham days had regular trophies but I also remember watching three consecutive home 0-0 draws and there were plenty of people complaining around me then. The start of the Arsene Wenger era was a breath of fresh air, the old defence plus Dennis Bergkamp were retained and Patrick Vieira's debut for a youngster was amazing and we suddenly had a world class player instead of David Hillier, Ian Selley, Stephen Morrow, Eddie McGoldrick, John Jensen, etc, etc. Add Manu Petit, Marc Overmars, Freddie Lungberg, Nicolas Anelka and the forward play became as good as the solid defence. ... then we got Henry and after his first half season he never looked back. However the defence got old and Wenger tried to replace them with "nearly good" players when we needed experienced internationals at the back and the speedy goalscoring wingers were replaced by potential or can't be bothered or injury prone wingers. It was virtually impossible to replicate Petit and Vieira as they were a partnership made in heaven (when they weren't getting suspended) and they haven't been replaced. The team has been dismantled one by one and the replacements one by one have not filled the gaps well enough, each year one or two players step up to the mark to drag the team to 4th place and a cup quarter final but Fabregas, Nasri, Wilshere, Van Persie have all been on form/fit at different times so we rarely show our full potential. Our first team is pretty good but our second team still isn't so get a few injuries and they look very very average and have no leader to pick up the pace when 25 sideways passes are the only apparent option. What we need is a backup keeper to Szczesny, another centre back (in the Vermaelen mould), another decent central midfielder (for when Wilshere isn't around), a winger who can take on players, cross and knows where the goal is and finally a goalscorer ... if we got those 5 world class players then Van Persie may just decide to stay. If they cost an average of £25m each that's £125m, we could sell a load of players to get maybe half that back and so that is affordable. Increase the wages for the best players only so they don't have their heads turned. I don't see that Wenger needs to be replaced but he needs to stop worrying about the finances and get the new world class players in and show everyone how much easier it is to work with quality players rather than potential. We don't need to abandon the youth policy but to add youngers to a winning team is much better for the club and the youngsters otherwise the youngsters get used to losing and fail to reach their potential. Anyway sorry for the long post but I feel better now!!
That's a good point Mr Dutch Master We have seen Arsenal players wanting it badly before but now sadly those instances are fewer and far in between. With no change in our approach or fortunes for this length of time perhaps it is not unreasonable to consider that some change be brought in.
That would be 60:2 in terms of responses to your posts at this time of writing so you're doing well Henry's cat. I think you've summarised Arsenal's history under our two most successful managers very well. It's that extra push in areas and indeed in terms of team spirit that keeps us from those big prizes. I wish we could get those 5 world class players but the news in the press is that the board have earmarked something like 55 -57m for summer transfers and within that budget must come the wages of those players. I think this is very silly. Why include the wages when these will be countered by the wages one won't be paying the players we sell? I think this is maths gone wrong. It may not be a like for like match but surely it's only the difference in what we pay the new players against what we used to pay the outgoing ones that we would be looking at. If one includes all the wages then 55m will not buy very much. If we sell some players and bring in 30 to 40m, then it will help. What I cannot understand is that the cash balance in the bank is supposedly £160m and rising. What are they retaining so much of the cash for? There is much that is not revealed. Perhaps the German model may be the best solution for the EPL. In Germany I understand that the clubs have to be largely owned by supporters or something to that effect. On Arsene, I too would rather he stay to the end so we can thank him as we should for his many years of faithful service. If he is to get us anywhere though as already suggested, he will need to allow himself to focus solely on the matter of football and find again those winning ways he once brought to us. Catch you soon.
