1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Barnsley manger has no sympathy for Pompey!

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by multiballsystem, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. RSS

    RSS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    11,150
    Likes Received:
    9,385
    Fair enough, and i can understand why its not that easy to get rid of higher earners. But in the situation Pompey find themselves, would there not be a situation where it would be mutually beneficial for the 'high earning player' and the club to part ways, cancel contract or something?? The high earners are not earning any money at the moment and for the foreseeable future, and as the months go on the debt Pompey owe to that player only increases. Cancel the contract, player goes on a free to another club, starts earning money again and Pompey don't have an increasing debt to that player. It may make no sense at all and I am just postulating here with no real basis. I guess a downfall for the player would be less wages at another club, but its better then nothing surely?
     
    #41
  2. Channonfodder

    Channonfodder Rebel without a clue.....

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    5,133
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    I suspect that the players are advised by their agents to sit tight. They may find a new owner who is prepared to honour the contract. If they refuse to play, then they are in breach of contract themselves and it could get messy. I don't know much about contract law (maybe one of you does and can put me right?) but I assume that you would have to be not paid for a reasonable time before you could safely walk away from a contract. I take your point about being paid nothing at present, but waiting a few weeks to see what happens might make sense for the players at this stage, no doubt swearing their allegiance to the club right up to the point that agent says its time to go!
     
    #42
  3. MAJR

    MAJR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    240
    Until clear guidelines are given to the club by the Football League and by the Administrator to the Manager as to what is and is not allowed Appleton is perfectly withing his rights to talk about recruiting players and to inquire about loans from other clubs. For weeks he has been asking the Football League to tell him what he's allowed to do, they have not, in his first meeting with the Administrator he was told that efforts would be made to reinforce the squad. My problem with the people having a go at Appleton for talking about strengthening the team is that they are not taking this into consideration. In the end it is down to the Football League and the Administrator whether they allow the club to recruit more players. Appleton is only doing his job in looking out for the best interest of players and the team

    Which moves onto the point about youngters. Appleton is looking out for their best interests in being careful with them. He doesn't want to throw them into first team before their mentally ready for fear that he'll hamper their development. He may end up having no choice but to use them but until all other options are closed to him then, while I dont personally agree with not bringing the youth up in this situation, I dont see whats wrong with him doing so.

    I am unaware of other teams in similar positions to Portsmouth not being allowed to bring in loans so if you know or a similar situation and can referance it then that would be helpful. If there is a similar situation and then the precedent is set for the Football League to refuse to allow the club to bring in more players but, once more, ultimate responsibilty for permission or refusal to allow new signings rests with them. They have to set the rule and enforce them.
     
    #43
  4. Piebacca

    Piebacca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    7,739
    Likes Received:
    739
    I don't thinks its so much a question of not being allowed to, but rather that all these other clubs knew they couldn't afford to bring in new players, and so brought up their youth players to fill the gaps.
     
    #44
  5. MAJR

    MAJR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    240
    And I have been critical of Portsmouth over the years for refusing to give youth a chance. Ever since Redknapp took over as manager in 2002 Portmouth have forgotten how to develop youngters and got rid of the majority of the ones that could have broken through. I cant remember if I said it on this website or a different one but if we had developed youth players during our Premier Lague days and not just indulged Redknapp's desire to spend and let Zajec, Perin, Adams and Hart follow in his footsteps then we wouldn't be in this mess now.

    But I cant fault Appleton for wanting to protect his youngsters while there are still other options available to him and I can understand him wanting to bring in loans instead of risking them.

    Having said that, when we got relegated from the Premier League I expected the club to sell most of the team, keep a core of experianced first team players, maybe bring in a free transfer or two, and start bringing through those young players. Cotterill did not, however, but rather kept hold of some of the first team, bought a few players and got rid of most of the young players who were on the edge of breaking into the main team - some of whom have gone on to be stars of the lower divisions like Ritchie and Pack - and left us with only a handful who could break through now. I think Cotterill did a good job as Pompey boss, dont get me wrong, but I never approved his the way he dealt with the youngsters.

    It is my belief that a club can only maintain success - even minor success in the lower divisions - if it has a proper youth set up and development policy. Portmouth have not had that since the days of Jack Tinn in the 1920/30's/40's. George Smith and Jim Smith in their times managed to do something similar but you have to go back as far as Tinn's days to see a continual progression of teams being built from young talent. That's one of the reason Southampton have historically been higher up the league than Pompey - because nobody have invested in the club and developed a sustainable policy of youth development.

    So, in case you haven't got it so far, I do agree that Portsmouth should have been bring through youngsters and not buying more established stars, and I do agree that we should be relying on youngsters now but since Appleton is the first manager in over a decade to actually seem to have a plan to nurture the development of young players I cant find it in me to criticise him for wanting to delay using them until their ready or he has no alternative.
     
    #45
  6. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,598
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Perhaps I'm missing something here...but the saying "needs must" comes in to this somehow. If you have youngsters who want to play football who are registered to the club. Why shouldn't they be used? Because it might hamper their development doesn't work for me!!! What he is really saying is that the players will not be/are not good enough to play in the team. Which would weaken the team obviously. Sorry, that is what every one else has had to do....so why not Pompey??? Feel sorry for the lads but they will either make it or they won't. You ask them what they would rather do.......Personally I think I know the answer to that question so do they.......Sorry it is just another excuse to try and get more hand outs.
     
    #46
  7. MAJR

    MAJR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    240
    Yeah, sure, as I said, I agree that we should be using more youngsters. But given the option most manager would pick a loan over unprepared youth. Appleton has not ruled out using the youngsters if he has to, he's just said he'd prefer not to. As long as the Football League and the Administrator are prepared to allow the club to sign someone on loan he's going to take that option - as any manager would. Right now he's operating within his rights to talk about strengthening the team and to look for signing, until he is told by the Football League or the Administrator that he can no longer do this then he is doing nothing wrong.
     
    #47
  8. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    69,233
    Likes Received:
    24,804
    The manager will use anything he's allowed to, so can't really expect him to take some kind of moral stance on this issue.
     
    #48
  9. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,598
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Sorry if my semi rant seemed to be aimed at you it wasn't meant to be. Of course any manager worth his salt would prefer to use tried and tested players rather than untrusted youth. How ever to not have players on the bench just because they are young is wrong. It will at least get them used to the atmosphere and an insight into first hand pressure if only on the bench. It is another way of preparing them perhaps rather than have to bring them on in the cold.
     
    #49
  10. st_brendy

    st_brendy Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    22,968
    Likes Received:
    11,563
    But he only selected three subs yesterday. To me, that says he has no interest in turning to youth. He'd rather have two empty spaces than select two kids.

    Like I've said, the likes of Lancashire and Paterson were nowhere near good to be playing for us in the Championship in 2008/09, but we still picked them. We had no money and needs must.
     
    #50

  11. MAJR

    MAJR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    240
    That was partly because we were up in Barnsley, with very limited travel expenses. Administration may have been confirmed by then but when the team left for the north it was not. Magri, who came with him, went off to Liverpool for a trial, Thorne rejoined Pompey on the way and Kanu failed a late fitness test. With Kanu, Thorne and Magri added that would have been a full team.
     
    #51
  12. sa1nts

    sa1nts Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    31
    John Utaka has just scored for Montpelier at PSG, 1st v's 2nd.

    John Utaka, John Utaka..........hmm, think, think.....
     
    #52

Share This Page