Have you read the thread? The argument is that Wenger has never won anything with a team exclusively containing players he signed. That is a fact. Whether he was just lucky to win trophies is a matter of opinion which others have argued he was.
So far the thread has lots of reasons as to why Wenger was indeed lucky, but nothing to counter that he was not.
49 Games Unbeaten in the league, Multiple FA Cups, Multiple Prem Titles, CL Final, 15 Consecutive Years of CL etc... ARE ALL LUCKY? Why did the squads he "inherited" not enjoy that level of success
If you read the thread, its been argued that those teams still retained both players and a strong link to the GG team (plus Bergkamp) Players like Vieira joined and were able to play with players like Adams. Players like Bergkamp, Keown and Parlour were still there. Bergkamp and Parlour played many games, Keown was still there and in the dressing room, but also played games. Since the link was completely broken with players not recruited by Wenger, he dispensed with the defending and the character in the side whittled away - he has won nothing with a team he created fully by himself.
They did under George Graham - six in fact. First Division (2): 1988–89, 1990–91 FA Cup (1): 1992–93 League Cup (2): 1986–87, 1992–93 FA Charity Shield (1): 1991 (shared) UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1994
Wenger had way more success with them than Graham did The whole lucky argument is stupid He transformed the team and took them to the highest level but its a shame that eh seems to have lost his way
Is that it - your argument is that everyone is stupid who doesn't hold your view? In terms of trophies won per year, Graham has a better record than Wenger. Graham 9 years - 6 trophies. Wenger 16 years - 7 trophies. Wenger never managed to win a trophy once players he didnt sign had all retired or left.
Then please try to follow the trend of the argument. You pointed to Wenger's achievements. I replied that they were becoming a distant memory. Not untrue even by any stretch of the imagination. However we have another year to address the matter of adding to those achievements. An eighth year incidentally.
The OP's initial argument is that Wenger was lucky to win all those trophies I am arguing against that
Oxo do you have a problem following the fact that I was in turn responding to your remark. Oh, never mind. I really don't have the time.
Thats not what the OP said and not what we are arguing. The OP said that Wenger had done an amazing job, but was lucky in that he inherited great players. I agree with this, and it's supported by the fact that Wenger has not managed to win anything with a team that didnt have players signed by other managers. Both Graham and Wenger have good records of winning - but Grahams is more impressive as he had 7 years less at the club.
Love how 'TheOXOCube' and 'PISKIE' didn't even read my post!! They've quoted me as stating he was "lucky" yet i never even used that word in the post....they're repeatedly arguing with something that's not even there My post isn't as 1 dimensional as they try to make out! I've mentioned several areas that were at the club during his successful years that aren't there now when we've have no success. This would indicate he possibly needed those items to make the team winning team? 'TheOXOCube' and 'PISKIE' have given examples of other great players signed by Wenger but i point out that we've lost David Dein and other parts of our scouting network and haven't been able to sign the same quality ever since. Can you argue that? RVP was signed in 2004 and not much else has come in since and done a consistent job (TV is always injured, Kos took a while to settle so not convinced just yet)!! As Jayram has tried to explain the evidence would suggest that since several key factors he inherited have evaporated he hasn't been able to recreate the early success. Why? Its what we all want to know? How has the defense been over the past few seasons? ANSWER - Not good enough. The last time we were really solid was 2005-06 in the CL run in and that's when Keown was helping to coach them How has Wenger not changed his No.2 in all these years. Even Alex Ferguson shakes things up in his backroom staff every few seasons How have our recent transfers turned out so horrible or just not good enough for what we need? (Squillaci, Chamakh, Arteta, Meterersaker, Benyaon (LOAN)
OXO - why did you even bother coming into this argument ? It is clear that you haven't read the thread because all the rubbish you are saying is either irrelevant or has been addressed already PISKIE - you, as always miss the point and then cling on to some pointless argument that cuts no ice. Jayram has asked for you to refute his claims but you cannot. The fact of the matter remains that Wenger has not won a damned thing with his own personnel, that is irrefutable
Wenger has won many things with the personnel he has And if you are desperate enough to go to the "100% Wenger Squad" then 2005 FA Cup
Bergkamp played in that game. Even then we were showing signs of regressing - we were awful in that game.
