Im not disagreeing with you Saint(or Legend or jb etc)but its like theres a queue of wums taking turns to come on our board to start the whole thing off again every time we think we've moved on.
I don't think I dragged anything down, I just disagreed with the assertion that Suarez is the victim in this affair. It's just an opinion, one shared by the independent panel who found him guilty and the FA who banned him. It's an opinion that isn't shared by Kenny Dalglish hence him ordering new shirts for him and the team. In exchange for not beating my chest over the injustice of it all for poor old Suarez I have been told that I have special needs and must be on benefits. It's a curious way to put a point across but each to their own.
Just had a look at our home board - Suarez best position, Appreciation thread, What did the Ajax fans do last night for him, 3 out of 25! Anyway I'm newer here than you so don't want to get off on the wrong foot. My point about rival fans wasn't aimed directly at you either more to those who persist in finding threads to add 'let's move on' comments when it's up to the individuals on the thread when they want to move on. No hard feelings Rusholme
If you state categorically that its down to facts that Suarez is guilty and repeat this, but fail to provide one single unambiguous fact, you're going to get labelled either lacking understanding of the word "Fact", or if you continue to plough on with that 'fact' thing again and again, you'll get called special needs because either you're educationally subnormal (not getting the argument), or you're a plain old attention-seeking WUM. You pick your own epithet...
I was under the impression this thread was about discussing an alternative or betterment to the independent panel - which we were doing quite nicely until ....
You quoted my post so I think it's fair for me to point out that I didn't call you any of those things and I'm not responsible for how others respond to your provocation. However, I made some valid points about the seriousness of this situation above and beyond Liverpool Football Club and you fail to address any of them. For this reason I suggest you have come on here merely to pursue an anti-Liverpool agenda and not to engage in serious discussion. Hope that's clear.
It's just an opinion, one shared by the independent panel who found him guilty and the FA who banned him and this is one of the things we are complaining about. you cannot find someone guilty based on an opinion. it has to be based on actual verifiable events. not what someone thinks about what might or might not have happened during an event. we have repeatedly asked you to justify your opinion that suarez is guilty with factual verifiable evidence proving that suarez actually and repeatedly racially abused evra. so far you have completely failed to provide anything, just repeatedly stated that the 'independent' panel found him guilty, ipso facto he's guilty. that is not evidence. and please stop refering to the panel and the fa as separate entities, they are not, and never were separate in any way, another one of the issues we have with the whole affair.
"To be honest with you, the disciplinary process is, at best, erratic. It always has been. There is no consistency. This incident was six, seven months ago – I thought speed was meant to have been brought into the disciplinary hearings. We're in the same situation as we were before – it seems to go on forever." "You can't do anything about the FA disciplinary process. I gave up years ago trying to be a voice, trying to bring reason to certain things. You need consistency, which means you need the same people sitting all the time, professionals who understand the game, who understand the passion of the game, the human element of the game. Sensible people – that doesn't always happen, though. It's erratic, I am sure they would say that themselves. You haven't a clue what you're going to get when you go down there. I was down there three or four years ago and I left bemused. "Will I get charged for this? I'd put it far more in the hands of the professional game because you've got non-football people sitting on the panel, sitting opposite you with no understanding of the game, and that's a problem. They've tried to introduce a more professional element, but they don't really have a say, the main decisions are made by the non-football people." Gary Neville - on Evra case (no. 1)
I agree with many of the points made above. But I do not wish to be disrespectful they have been before and more timely at the time of the panel report. We are agreed that the FA and the FA panel have been unfair. Can't we move forward and leave all this behind? We didn't appeal and we accepted the verdict. So what is the point of all this many weeks after the event? As I said and many on here agree let's stop all this and draw a line under this sorry episode.
Ghandi used it to gain an independent India: he didn't get one. he got an India he didn't recognize & pakistan with 60 years of further bloodshed of a people he always considered one: he got them murdering each other rather than being ruled by the Brits. MLK, may have achieved some of his goals but quite obviously he didn't achieve his ultimate aim of a society where the colour of ones skin doesn't matter. I would also argue that the various violent riots with their effect on America's economy aided the "passive resistance" movement. I'd also take a look at all the great rebuilding work in New Orleans in answer to the end of American segregation, it's just macro rather than micro now.
"MLK, may have achieved some of his goals but quite obviously he didn't achieve his ultimate aim of a society where the colour of ones skin doesn't matter." No one man could ever hope to do that, certainly not in one lifetime! Rememeber Rosa Parks as well, her passive resistance led to the Montgomery Bus Boycot which in turn led to segregated bussing being rules unconstitutional - which led to the civil rights movement. MLK oponent Malcolm X achieved far less with his 'by any means necessary' stance.
Anyway: Hopefully this mongrel of a government actually carries out a methodical review of the FA & forces it to make the changes they've said they were initiating for the last 20 years. I do think for the good of the game: the disciplinary board, and punishments should be truly independent of the FA. My proposal would be a pool of football people (explayers/managers) selected by the teams in each league. Panels are selected at random from this pool. Preferably the people selected by premier teams can't sit on a premier league panel etc. Each panel should also have a member representing referees perspective as a large amount of evidence comes from them. You need an HR/Legal rep The FA is seen as like the CPS, can only bring a charge as per their rules; the rules do not include punishments with them. The punishments should be set by the teams involved in the league with influence from the FA just so it doesn't all go the teams way. I would also argue that no charge can be brought to a panel if it is a criminal act. If the evidence is there the FA should report it to the police :as crime is their job, not the FA's. Everyone has a right to be tried by the proper authorities If they are being accused of a criminal act.
Apologies the "anyway" was at myself to get back on OP point not being dismissive of your post which you posted while I was typing lol.
Lfc fans have their opinion on this subject. Man Utd fans have their opinion on this subject. Looking at comments from fans of other clubs most seem swayed in favour of Utd. Lfc fans should look at the fact THEIR player, manager, and board director have made public apologies over this sorry affair, so as the club can try to put this behind them. Lfc as a club had the chance to stand firm in this and take this matter to arbitration of sport but they chose not to. As much as certain Lfc supporters feel hard done by they will never change the outcome, since the club have already accepted it. I am not trying to get into the rights/ wrongs just facts. It`s over deal with it.
Oh look, 3 more paragraphs from a united fan taking the time to say not to keep this thread going ....
No apology needed Just to address some of the points you make about how a disciplinary committee could be set up. "My proposal would be a pool of football people (explayers/managers) selected by the teams in each league. Panels are selected at random from this pool." This is virtually what happens now - the FA's 'Judicial Panel' a team of individuals with up to 11 silks, and an undisclosed number of ex players, managers and referees. The panel is approved by all clubs prior to the start of the football season. Any 3 members of the panel are called upon at any time to hear cases and appeals. The punishments are also laid out so each club knows the penalty should rules be broken. On the face of it is seems pretty sound but my concern is that a panel of 3 isn't enough. Other point you make - "I would also argue that no charge can be brought to a panel if it is a criminal act. If the evidence is there the FA should report it to the police :as crime is their job, not the FA's." Some on field events have been reported to the police who have to act on it once reported. However, it can only be reported by the individual to whom the 'crime' has been commited against. So for example a player who has his leg broken can bring a charge against the player who did it but an outside body can't bring that case on his behalf - only the individual/s on whom the crime has been purpotrated (spl) can report it to the police. Evra could have reported Suarez for racial abuse in the workplace, similarly Suarez could have claimed the same against Evra. Unless they themselves report it, it cannot be brought before the law.
1) Looking at comments from fans of other clubs most seem swayed in favour of Utd. 2) Lfc as a club had the chance to stand firm in this and take this matter to arbitration of sport but they chose not to. 3) It`s over deal with it. 1, considering that most non-liverpool fans will not actually read the entire 115 page report, or attempt to ascertain the facts themselves. and that the press are clearly following the own sensationalist anti-blatter pro-antirascist agenda and are clearly choosing their reporting of 'facts' to match this agenda is that really any surprise. most of them are still convinced that suarez used the word 'ni**er' 2, actually, i believe the fa laws expressly forbid liverpool from doing this, in the same way it was forbidden for liverpool to appeal the verdict of the panel, only the sentence proscribed. 3, it's not over, far from it. it has far-reaching consequences where it is now possible for a player to deliberately get another innocent player deliberately suspended for an extended period, heavily fined, and branded a racist for the rest of his life by maliciously and falsely accusing them of making racist comments. as well as exposing deep flaws in the fa being able to act as police, prosecution, judge and jury, with no counterbalance to prevent any FA bias or abuse of the system.
Johnsonsbaby, fair enough; are they selected at random or hand picked for panel from pool when need arises? If that's the case, how is Terry up? He allegedly racially abused Ferdinand, who didn't hear it but has been charged on the basis of a spectator. Anyway: if it's a criminal act, I maintain my point, Evra was sooo confident that 18 cameras picked up him being called "******" 10 times. And apparently was outraged, wanted to take a stand against racism. He should have reported it to the police: it's a crime. Like the rest of us, he has to stand up in the court of law & accuse. Not trial by who has the best PR machine. So, if the act is a crime; you report it like anyone else or nothing happens.
Members for a panel are selected from the pool when need arises - the Chair is in place for 3 years, the other 2 members selected from who is available I guess, not sure about that. In the Terry case you're right a member of the public reported it and Terry charged with a racially-aggravated public order offence - I think this takes it beyond damage to an individual - but I'm not sure.
