The Issue of Pepe

My point exactly. United's transfer dealings are not be constrained by considerations of long term value, only long term success. As for Andy Carroll's value, let's wait and see. shall we? I can certainly see a future where he fails to settle for Liverpool and is sold for £15 million in two or three years time. Ask me the question again then

An overdraft is a flexible debt facility. Like I said, don't use corporate finance terms if you don't know what they mean. The £25 million facility B overdraft can be drawn down at any time. And I bet it was drawn down to pay for Mr Suarez...

Isn't that the same as point 1? Why do you feel the need to repeat yourself? And I think you'll find John Henry was referring to the need to buy players that will definitely bring success, not just be young. After all, Berbatov for £30.75 million aged 27 seems to be much better value than Aquilani for £17 million aged 25...

I assume you mean 2009? Cos 2008 wasn't the year we sold Ronaldo. It was the year we spent over £50 million on new players and made a total pre tax loss of £21 million which was purely due to the £35 million a year goodwill write off associated with the takeover. You probably don't understand what I'm talking about, but if you actually want me to discuss the full details of United's finances, I'll be happy to. I doubt it'll be of much interest to 'pool fans - they much prefer the media doom and gloom.

 

To the taxman it will represent a loss. But that's presumably true of any player signed. Unless the taxman has different rules for Berbatov and Suarez?

On the remaining years of his contract that works out to roughly £15m, no?

Interesting that you see Suarez and Caroll simply as a drain on resources but Berbatov as a top signing by the Glazers. His leaving has simply allowed us to spend elsewhere, which the Glazers haven't done with "the Ronaldo money" they keep saying is available. Ronaldo and Torres were clearly big losses but we went out and replaced Torres immediately, albeit expensively. Or not. I dunno. Some say we wasted loads on Caroll and some say FSG are tightfisted because January net spend was really low. It depends where in the argument someone is trying to knock us.

It took Ronaldo, Berbatov and Nani enough time to do so but you know and we know the wums will still be on here every time Caroll doesn't score. Caroll my have been expensive but relative to Torres' value and fee he was a reasonable price. Some PL managers have privately said he was a great buy due to the lack of top young English strikers currently available.

And what were Utd in 1991? The team who'd won a European Cup over 20 years ago and been relegated in the 70s but were rebuilding and still had a brand name and fan loyalty, though that fan loyalty had been stretched to breaking point and beyond by their manager. But if you're suggesting NESV simply took over a winning club like the Glazers took over Utd you're way off the mark. A Liverpool fan resident in Boston wrote an extensive piece on NESV at the Sox:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2010/10/the-red-sox-under-nesv-part-i/

"If you think a twenty year League drought is a heavy cross to bear, imagine the following scenario. In 1991, after winning the title, Liverpool sell Ian Rush to Manchester United. Rush goes on to become the most prolific striker in football history, scoring 40 goals a year for the next 10 years, playing longer and better than anyone could possibly have imagined. Liverpool don’t win another title for over EIGHTY YEARS."

And of course, there's the record-breaking 600-game sell-out at Fenway:

http://www.nesn.com/2010/07/red-sox-sellout-streak-hits-600-games.html

That's with the increased capacity they created, along with the reputation among home and opposition fans as Fenway being the best game day experience available and the wider spread of ticket costs, from $20 (£12.50) to $200.

http://www.strategy-business.com/article/13714?gko=7e910

Oh dear oh dear, you had to raise the Bucs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...10/sep/14/glazers-tampa-bay-manchester-united

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/foot...to-reassure-tampa-bay-buccaneers-fans/1100764

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/oct/24/tampa-bay-buccaneer-glazers-manchester-united

And my fave, a Bucs fan come up with a "top ten marketing ideas to bring back the fans":
http://thecaptainsdeck.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=6bce4ad24596e6f38b58615fb90145fc&topic=131.0

80 years, dude.

That's a good thing but is five years really long term? Fergie's talking about an entirely different Utd in three years. And it only took NESV two years to win the World Series. Did I mention the 80 years' wait? To me twenty years is long term. Five years is the minimum I'd expect owners to have a plan for. Anything else really is cowboy territory. And having a five-year plan doesn't mean you're going to go all out in year five but until then nothing.

Now who's turning a negative into a positive? You call it trust; some would call it stupidity. Caveat emptor. PSV turned Bebe down for free in May last year. Fergie paid, what, over £7m? Did he not know he was being hawked around for free a few months earlier?

A PR liability and probably leaving this summer. Also the only Utd player with the clout and bottle to dispute your version of the Glazers. From the inside.

An investment? Really? He was good when you bought him. Loads of silky promise. Not really what he's become renowned for though, is it? He's no Modric.

Oh my sides. That's not an investment, that a, "They saw you coming."

Finally delivering.

Didn't you just say you only had him on a two-year loan? He wanted to stay and Fergie arsed about so much he got miffed and went to a rival.

Oh please. You'll be citing Owen next.

Are you going to claim Glazer investment for every player who's signed? We can all add up. Rafa signed 70 players if you count the 8-yr olds. Does that make H&G great owners? The accusation Rooney made from the inside was the squad was being eroded. A 21-yr old at an undisclosed fee is not countering that argument any more than signing Raheem Sterling and Jonjo Shelvey last season showed Hicks and Gillett were really top blokes.

I won't go into the rest of the players because you can't just sign nobody. Not every player can go on until they're in their 50s like Scholes and Giggs. It's still squad erosion when you lose Tevez and Ronaldo to replace them with £7m Hernandez, no matter how well he's done. Rafa and Fergie have similar success/flop stats for mid-range transfers, i.e. £2m-£15m, so what are the chances of another good value Hernandez to replace Rooney this summer?

Oh well, that's okay then. Take down the protest banners.

I know if bond issues were so great every club would have one.

But I think it's about time you stood for election to MUST. Somebody's got to put them straight on their silly protest.

 

Bloody hell what happened to my thread! Interesting debate though, which I have no response to! I have no doubt we will be better next year, and sadly that United will find a way through their financial problems and remain strong. Let's hope not.

 

Swarbs has certainly put up a very good argument that the Glazers are great. It's almost too good for a club with a fan protest going on. And he's a financial analyst so he does have the clout. Although as a Manc we can't really say he's what the regulators would call an independent financial analyst.

But with Rooney being sold at $50m-£80m it'll be interesting to see just how much the Glazers put up to ease their PR battle with the green and yellow throng.

 

I'm not saying that they're great, but they're not half as bad as most people make them out to be. The only valid criticism that can be levied at them is that they have used debt levied on the club to fund a fair portion of the acquisition. But given Utd was acquired for £500 million more than 'pool, £650 million more than Citeh and £720 million more than Chavski, they put as much of their own capital into the acquisition as anyone. And of course the interest on the debt is less than the amount our operating profits have grown under the Glazers. Most of the protestors just jump on the bandwagon and listen to all the hype without actually looking at the facts.

Surely that counts in favour of my argument? If my analysis indicated the Glazers were bad for the club, I'd be waving a green and yellow scarf from the top of the nearest flagpole.

Like I said...it'll be interesting to see how our respective expectations for our club and each other's match up to what actually happens in the summer, and how that impacts on our level of success next season...

 

Swarbs has made interesting comments in support of the Glazers.
It seems that he won't be part of the ''Green and Vomit'' protest in the summer when their fans expect Jack Rodwell,Kaka and Angel De Maria and they end up with Jimmy Bullard and two portugese tramps.
As for NESV,In terms of marketing in the next 3-5 years they can and will wipe the floor with Manchester United,Fenway Sports Group the marketing division of the NESV empire will see to that.Thats not mentioning NESN who NESV own 80% of.

 

berba has nowhere near earned the 31m tag. He got into the spurs shop window as with carrick, and soon to be VDV come june with no CL footy next year for spurs, and once he got to united he scores 4 in one game and thinks he can have a day out for the next 5 games.


Torres was a liability in his current state, Ronaldo was not, apart from the CL final with Barca, for that game he was a massive liability but on the whole he was te creative spark for united and as such a big loos. Nando was not performing for us and wanted out and hadn't performed for 18 months. As it now stands it was a great deal for Liverpool, and it is wait and see for Chelsea.

 

I can see Fergie putting in a bid for VDV when spurs fail to make the CL, either United, who could use his creativity, or Chelsea as they are getting on a bit.

 

Will Nani ever do a Michael Jackson impression after scoring? That would be awesome

 

What, change his skin colour and molest a small child? I can't see that going down too well with the FA....

 

jaesus swarbs, he was your idol and you are engry he went and died and left you, its ok its ok there now, you got nani remember.

 

Its okay you're idol might be dead,You've still got Nani.....He also wears one white glove,he has a squeaky voice....and he blows bubbles.