But our manager is so stubborn. Do you think anyone can change him now? It appears that the more he is in a corner, the more he fights back in his determination to stay his course. From my own observation, that has yielded us three bad phases over the course or 11 months, the 12 points from 11 games at the end of last season, the 7 from 7 at the start of this and the 8 from 8 we are currently in. Not the form that would get us anywhere. I really think that under this manager and board too it must be said, we are getting nowhere. Can anyone really see a chink of light somewhere out there? Yes it isn't over but our form may suggest that we are nearly at breaking point again as we were after February last year. I don't see Arsene being able to influence the team's performance as he used to. In part this is also due to not having a team which can rise to the occasion on a consistent basis. And with respect to this he has to take his share of the blame, unless his hands are really tied by the board.
Jayram - how many members does the AST have and are they representative of 'most' Arsenal fans ? I'm not a member but have been going for almost 30 years, as have about a dozen friends and as far as I'm aware none of them are AST members.
Translation: I am afraid to re-post the AST survey results here as it will once again show me to be one who is prone to extreme exaggeration in order to underpin my continued negativity. Yours sincerely (a first?) Jamrag
I could have sworn that from memory, the AST stats showed that a majority ( remember that you do not have to at 80 or 90% to be a majority ) or increasing percentage did not approve of the way things were run at the club or were uneasy about Wenger's philosophy. TBH I can't be bothered to look up the figures since we all believe what we wish. And the AST stats can easily be googled
ma·jor·i·ty   [muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor-] Show IPA noun, plural -ties. 1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population. 2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number. 3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder ( distinguished from plurality).
The AST website says it has 850 members which equates to around 1.5% of average home support. The number of people who class themselves as fans be that from their armchairs or from oversees will be in their hundreds of thousands, the AST members are therefore representative of less than 0.01% of our overall fanbase. It may well be true that 'most' fans want AW out but we need more than the views of 850 people to determine that....
Some interesting points from the AST survey to 'support' jayram fantasy: http://www.arsenaltrust.org/uploaded/astsurveyexecsummreport2011(1).pdf Questionnaires were sent to 850 members of the AST and 382 responses were received, representing 45% of the membership So only 45% of their members responding, therefore not even a majority of the 850 members (all of whom represent a small proportion of loyal supporters). Q: Now that Arsenal is more than 90 percent owned by two billionaire investors, do you think that relying on the ‘sustainability’ model (where the Club only spends the revenues it raises) should remain a key corporate objective or is there a case for fi nancial investment into the club by its major shareholders? 51% want to retain the self-sustaining model. Q: How satisfi ed are you with the football performance of Arsenal Football Club in recent years? Only 37% were unsatisfied Q: Do you think that if Arsenal does not win a trophy next season (which would be the seventh successive year without one) that the Board should conclude that Arsène Wenger has taken the club as far as he can? Only 42% said yes. Q: Do you think the Arsenal Board and its senior executives are in touch with Arsenal fans and have a good understanding of their hopes and concerns for the future of the club? Only 35% said 'no, not in touch' Q: Looking at Arsenal’s new ownership structure, its ‘sustainable’ business model, its football management and squad strength, and comparing it to the other Premier League clubs, how optimistic are you about Arsenal’s prospects during the next fi ve years? Only 31% said 'pessimistic' or 'slightly pessimistic' So not a massive majority of this small minority. However, I will concede that this was taken in July this year and it's possible that some fans may be more concerned now. Personally, I think that it is clear that currently it's a minority that want Wenger out, as shown by the polls and opinions on here and other forums, the AST survey and the few idiots that are booing at the ground.
Exactly the same points I made months ago when he tried to use this report the first time. Sadly, it seems they use a different method for calculating percentages on the planet omfgwearealldoomedtoberelegatedbecausewearecrap
Since when does fans opinion matter as regards whether a manager gets the sack or not? Even if you took a poll of all season ticket holders, and majority of them want Arsene out, it will NOT matter. The people that matter is the the board, as long as it is in their interest to carry on with the current regime, then it will be business as usual. The discussion between the WengerPhiles and the WengerSceptics will rage on. I have bad news for the Wengersceptics, ONLY Wenger will decide when his time is up.... So crying for his head is a lesson in futility I agree that results this season has not been what it should be, the bulk of our goals have come from one guy, you would have expected the club to strengthen in that area, even if it is on a short term deal.
The Magic Man .. this is like taking candy from a baby. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a survey to take everybody's opinion into account. Most surveys take a range of people, a cross section or a sample from a particular demographic. So first off your argument that its not everyone's opinion is neither here nor there for if that was the case there would be NO surveys taken ever Next up, this word the majority, we are dealing with the number of fans who responded to the survey. From the number of fans that did over 40% said Wenger should go if we are trophyless. LESS than 40% said he should stay and LESS than 40% said they were not sure. That gives a CLEAR MAJORITY to those that said he should go. If maths isn't your strong suit I suggest you don't argue. The majority of Arsenal fans surveyed in the AST said Wenger should go if we do not win a trophy this season.
It is easy to conclude therefore that What Jayram said is FACTUALLY correct and is backed up by a survey of 382 people, not too shabby.
oops you done it again....you really shouldn't hit the 'post quick reply' button until aunty Jamrag has vetted your efforts first lol ma·jor·i·ty   muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor- Show IPA noun, plural -ties. 1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population. 2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number. 3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder ( distinguished from plurality). Can anything be made any simpler to understand?
Hothead - I am not interested in arguing with you. My post was simply to show the stats that Jayram was referring to. Yes 42% said that he should leave if we do not win a trophy this year. I am pointing out that 42% of 45% of 850 (albeit member) supporters does not show that most Arsenal fans want Wenger out. But 42% is not a clear majority anyway. As per your last line, you know nothing about my levels of education, but I can assure you I'm not too shoddy with Maths. Facts show that 58% of fans did not say that Wenger should go. Try arguing like an adult without the the insults. You don't agree, fine. I have no problem with that. The survey was a very small representation of Arsenal fans and only 42% of them wanted Wenger out at that time. I would presume that this would be a higher percentage at the moment though and even higher if they were asked 'if Wenger does not win a trophy and finished outside of the top 4'. That is the facts.
Jayram said most Arsenal fans want Wenger out - I say this is incorrect. He backed up his argument by using an AST survey of which we've discovered 382 participated, some way short of the hundreds of thousands of fans Arsenal have globally. Therefore it's inaccurate to say the majority of Arsenal fans want Wenger out, it is accurate to say that 40% of the 382 people (which equals 152.8) that responded want Wenger out, but the AST is not representitive of all Arsenal fans.
The AST statistics were in respect of the 2011 year. Since then we as a club have fared even worse I dare say and if you don't believe that then consider that this time last year we were in the thick of the battle for the EPL. This year we couldn't have been further away at any point over the past 15 years. I think that were a new survey be done among the members of the AST today the results may well be different. One can't have all or even a great number of fans join every group, be it the AST or whatever but just listening to opinion expressed on forums, on the various radio phone-ins and yes I do appreciate that not everyone does call in, but there is a trend towards Arsenal fans, supporters and observers who believe that it is time for change. Tune into R5Live, LBC or Talksport and do it over a period of time, not just a week or two and you'll see what I mean.
This is true. However, it was Jayram who mentioned this as his current proof that most Arsenal fans want Wenger out. This is the only reason why I posted the results and I have mentioned that if this was done right now, the results would be different. Anyway, we do have a resonable chance for the FA cup. Don't bother arguing this point. I'll retract it and wait until the 93rd minute of the final before having hope....
Half Full Your simplification is the problem. Look at it statistically If 382 people are asked a question and 42% - say - said No, 35% said Yes and 23% said Don't know, the greater majority is with the No vote. In voting you don't have an "I don't know" option or a 3rd option, this is why an absolute majority is not necessary when referring to the majority. Given 2 options, Yes or No, an absolute majority will represent the majority, but with 3 or more options the chances of getting an absolute majority are massively diminished.
