ALF HOOKER, JONATHAN P ACWORTH, The Hatem-Bomb, thefanwithnoname, VenomPD You're in esteemed company there Venom
But I never originally said that there never has been a creator ever. That was not the question. All I said that there is no creator NOW. So by saying that there may have been one once, a long time ago, I am changing my stance. When initially asked whether pious people don't suffer, you said they don't. Later you changed to 'they do but deal with it better'. You changed your stance Fan. Simples, as you childishly say. The initial question was 'But what if you don't 'do what you want'? What if you live a very devout, pious lifestyle as God demands? Does that mean you will be immune to suffering?' To whic I responsded 'I would say yes' you then changed the boundaries as I said 'So you think that in the history of time, every devout and pious person has lived a life of peace and happiness, with no misery, misfortune or disappointment?' to which the response was 'not having known them all personally I cant honestly say I can however say that most people who are pious/devout find solace and dont go around blaming the world etc. Generally speaking of course' therefore as explained different question different answer. not quite changing as you suggest you then went on to saints and martyrs and I did say depends on what you mean as suffering as explained above. Everyone will have occassion to lose a loved one etc however are they suffering? AS i said at the time 'We seem to be changing the boundaries now. It would help if you define what you are talking about in terms of suffering/pain' See above. I hadn't expressed any view whatsoever on the possibility of a creator existing at some point in the distant. Just that there is none now. You can't change a stance you've never taken. you are just lying now JJS. On numerous occassions you have said that you dont believe in god ie are an unbeliever inc: - My unbelief was me coming to my senses - my circumstances made me realise that god DOESN'T EXIST. - Why should I care about those? I don't believe in god. - Yeah right. Sam went to so much effort with a quick question and poll. You have a need to be seen as clever Fan. That's why you spend most your time on here playing devil's advocate. how do I do this pray explain?
Playing devil's advocate means arguing for the sake of it, arguing something you don't necessarily believe just so you can have something to argue about. You either do this, or you have the most ****ed up set of opinions and values I have ever encountered.
You've just proved yourself wrong there Fan, well done. Like you say, when asked whether the very devout and pious never experience suffering at some point you said yes. So basically god protects them. Later on you changed to 'their faith helps them deal with it.' So they protect themselves, god doesn't. So a big concession really. As evidenced above they are 2 different arguments. Initially it was about 'suffering' the boundary then changed to you including person who has lived a life of peace and happiness, with no misery, misfortune or disappointment?. This is NOT the same thing. Furthermore I asked you to explain what you meant by suffering and you have yet to do so My answer to your original question didnt change. It was subsequent different questions that recieved different answers, as clearly pointed in my last reply ight, I don't believe in god and have said this several times. However, I have never said 'there has never been a creator, ever'. Have I? So I have not changed my stance at all. You admitted and acknowledged a creator in the end as I have said. Initially on numerous occassions on different threads have said you are an athiest. As for the semantica on god and creator, unlike you who changed boundaries and refused to provide a definition, I have consistently on numerous occassions defined what I mean by God. I have always maintained that I only use the word God because that is what gets used. However would prefer creator Playing devil's advocate means arguing for the sake of it, arguing something you don't necessarily believe just so you can have something to argue about. You either do this, or you have the most ****ed up set of opinions and values I have ever encountered. These are my beliefs, right or wrong. I discuss/argue point out what I believe in. You on the other hand have often said some of what you argue are not your beliefs, but argue regardless.
The poll was flawed from the beginning when it was decided to make it a public poll im afraid. No anonymity has swayed the way people will vote god forbid they have to listen to STs bullshit
Alot of people here for some reason give a ****e how others percieve them on this anonymous forum, some sort of social deficiency if you ask me. So in a poll where people can see which way they have voted they are going to vote conservatively and stick with what they percieve will be popular opinion to save themselves from ridicule from the hands of people like STD (, oh the irony), or some people just like to suck up to the moderator
So the only free-thinkers on here are the people that voted the same way as you What about the fact that TFWNN is full of **** and ruins most threads?
Who said that about the free thinkers. IN all probability Jip would probably still have recieved more votes, but i could bet it would be a closer run thing. The public nature of the poll has skewed the voting. Whether TFWNN is full of **** is a matter of subjective opinion. While I do not agree with his faith or in god at all I would still regard him as quite a learned character and would consider the slander directed at him as frustrated posters using a strategy of character assassination having been unable to defeat the man intellectually by power of debate
My goal is to create debateand have a genuine discussion with folk, most of what I say I believe, on occassion its to challenge. I have never had run ins with people like yourself and have admited when wrong or making a mistake etc Some on here (this has icluded Jip since he became mod) for some reason make unsubstantiated comments, which I find ludicrous Toby and ST are well know for just swearing or becoming abusive when they have no come back, or start to question whether you have kids, what was your job etc Truth is for all anyone will ever know i could be a NF supporting chinese dude The best was the one about the consistency in my 'made up life' I thought that inconsistencey was what happened when you made things up? and that was Jip
Have you ever tried to have a 'debate' with it? Not some anti-semitic pal chat, but something which he is asserting that is pure bullshit (example: see Global Warming thread). It's absolutely impossible, the frustration is not from others 'being unable to defeat the man intellectually', it's because he's an idiot who's impossible to have any form of debate with because he twists everything. The only person that manages it is PNP but he must be one of the most patient men alive... He may be a 'learned character' on the subject of islam, but for the rest, it's all bullshit (again see Global Warming thread, pure googling and from a neo-con website ). He's just a muslim Medro.
