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Ian Tomlinson

Discussion in 'Celtic' started by Mind The Duck, Jan 10, 2012.

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  1. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you think one of the protocols might have been to check how reliable the information was before acting?

    That would have nipped it in the bud straight away don'tcha think?
     
    #121
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012
  2. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Look this is getting us nowhere but as Cossy has intimated it's not easy having to make a split second decision when confronted by a man who reportedly - and as far as you know - is carrying a shotgun. Maybe mistakes were made by the Cops but human error is always going to be a factor in such a high pressure job, we have to take account of that and act accordingly as citizens, we are tied into an unsigned a social contract but mistakes will always be made, I just don't happen to think perpertual witchhunts of the police will ever make this a better society.
     
    #122
    DevAdvocate, Jan 13, 2012
  3. EspaniaCelt

    EspaniaCelt Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome to the bragging rights! I just want to see the outcome and the detail of how it was arrived at...if I can remember to chase it up, given the effects of all the Rioja I've enjoyed over the years! :D
     
    #123
    EspaniaCelt, Jan 13, 2012
  4. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    I understand the nature of the role. I understand that unpleasant decisions have to be made at times. I accept errors will be made. The Harry Stanley case was a mistake and maybe lies were told. The De Menezes and Diarmuid O'Neill cases lies were certainly told. If nobody is held to account, if no training needs are identified, no refining of protocol as these mistakes are made, then the chances of avoiding a repeat do not diminish at all. I am not into witch hunts, I just find it incredible that people are protected from the mechanisms of justice.

    The cop in the Tomlinson case was brought up on the wrong charge. He should be and probably will be exonerated. That doesn't mean I don't think he was a **** for doing it.

    This thread is too far gone now from the issue at hand. There is no chance of bringing it back, but i am going to try.

    I think Corrigan has learned that the approach taken at CP has been the wrong one. He has said that is changing and I am prepared to take his word on it and until I see or hear different, that is good enough for me.
     
    #124
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012
  5. Cossy

    Cossy Well-Known Member

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    What information?
     
    #125
    Cossy, Jan 13, 2012
  6. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    The information that caused them to shoot an unarmed man in the head.

     
    #126
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012

  7. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    The only information they had was that a man - perhaps with a shotgun - had been in a pub and had left.

    I don't see why that information had to be corroborated, they had to act on the information given and expect to see a firearm. I have read of no eye witnesses who have given statements which have incriminated the policemen, so we have to accept their word that they saw a man turn toward them and apparently level a weapon at them, they had already shouted "armed Police, stop" to him and he ignored them. This has been stated as fact, "he had no reason to think they were talking to him so he ignored them". That sounds highly unlikely given his past and even so, there is still the testimony that he turned at aimed something at the Cops. No on has disputed this new the new evidence was produced.

    They acted on instinct and trainingand fear, and not just a concern that a man may die, they had the fear of killing a man and have to face the backlash from not just the public, but their superiors.
     
    #127
    DevAdvocate, Jan 13, 2012
  8. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    Cossy was talking about De Menezes

    Don't tell me, tell Justice Leveson. He accepts there is evidence that the police account was inaccurate.
     
    #128
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012
  9. Cossy

    Cossy Well-Known Member

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    RB, the surveillance officer put up that their target was on the move. It is his job to identify then follow him. If he tells you the target is on the move, you trust his judgement.

    It is unfortunate in this case that the sighting was of the wrong man -human error- but if you are trusting someone to do a job you either trust or you'd get someone else you do trust.
     
    #129
    Cossy, Jan 13, 2012
  10. Null

    Null Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Not really connected with football anymore is it?
     
    #130
    Null, Jan 13, 2012
  11. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    That was the only failure that day was it?


    One of a litany of failures.
     
    #131
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012
  12. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator Staff Member

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    No, i guess not.
     
    #132
    RebelBhoy, Jan 13, 2012
  13. Hoopster67

    Hoopster67 Well-Known Member

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    Was it not an Irishman with a gun?
     
    #133
    Hoopster67, Jan 13, 2012
  14. Null

    Null Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    This debate's moved on from policing at football grounds to police operations around the UK !
     
    #134
    Null, Jan 13, 2012
  15. Null

    Null Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    If anyone thinks this shoudl be re-opened, PM me
     
    #135
    Null, Jan 13, 2012
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