There's no doubt that Torro Rosso are beneficial to the success of the main Red Bull team and have the ability on certain occasions to be detrimental to other teams. It would be much worse if TR were using the same technology and having the same success as the parent team, but even so I think most people can see the problem in having basically two Red Bull teams. Just imagine the further complications of F1 returning to the A1 Ring, now the Red Bull Ring.
Welcome aboard by the way, Slicks, nice first post. Hopefully you'll find us to be a decent bunch. Just stay away from General Chat! Anyone see the baptism of fire a QPR fan just got from the GC boys?
Red Bull boss Christian Horner defends Toro Rosso sackings http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/16520146.stm ---- Horner said: "Both Buemi and Alguersuari had the support of Red Bull to enter F1 and had been supported in Buemi's case for three seasons and in Alguersuari's two and a half seasons, and during that time it enables you to form a picture of how the guys are developing. "Obviously a decision was made to elevate both Jean-Eric Vergne and Daniel Ricciardo, who are two of the most exciting talents on the periphery of Formula 1, into race seats at Toro Rosso. "As (Red Bull owner) Dietrich Mateschitz always said, Toro Rosso is there for driver development, to produce future race-winning stars who have been invested in through the Red Bull junior programme. "In Jean-Eric and Daniel we have on the Red Bull books two of the most exciting youngsters who have been coming through the ranks of the junior formulae in the last couple of years. "Both drivers are well known to Red Bull Racing and are capable of doing a very strong job. "It was entirely logical for us to retain Buemi in the capacity of a test and reserve driver. "He will be doing behind-the-scenes work on a simulator, he is well known to the team, he knows the structure, and he remains within the pool of drivers available to Red Bull Racing." Horner said that he believed Red Bull should be praised rather than criticised for their investment in young drivers. "Red Bull doesn't get the credit it deserves," said Horner. "Neither Buemi nor Alguersuari would have progressed through the junior ranks - let's not forget Alguersuari won the British Formula Three championship - without the support. "Red Bull have brought in numerous drivers to F1 now, some who have remained, some who have moved on to other things. "We have some youngsters on the programme, including a young Scottish lad, Lewis Williamson, who is being supported in the World Series this year and within GP3 last year. "He's another driver who wouldn't have the opportunity to progress without the support of the Red Bull junior programme. "We're in a good position with the Red Bull juniors. When I look around at what other schemes there are, Red Bull has invested a huge amount in youth and should be commended for giving these guys the opportunity that might otherwise have gone missing." -----
About right really, neither Buemi or Algersuari have exactly set the world on fire, but neither has done badly either. Let's see how the two new drivers do for them, not expecting much better to be honest though.
Of course he does! Has anyone heard of Horner not dancing to the Mateschitz and Marko tune? Helmut Marko need only make opinionated remarks about a driver or incident for little-Jack to immediately fall into line every time. He is little more than a front man. Now, it may be a simplification to say that Toro Rosso is the Red Bull driver test bed; but the very fact that we have Horner making comments about drivers who were never in his team demonstrates the unique advantage Red Bull have held since entering two teams. I happen to agree that neither Buemi nor Alguesuari have been strong enough to suggest that other strong newcomers could not do a similar job. But I do not like the way Mateschitz, Marko and mouthpiece (Horner) go about their business. I like fairness, but the Red Bull operation has held an unfair advantage ever since both of its teams were there - as was so aptly demonstrated by Marko paying a visit to the Toro Rosso garage to tear a strip off Alguesuari (himself on a hot lap) for not getting out of Vettel's way. I like fairness as far as practicable - but for the above reasons I do not wish Red Bull success. This is part of the reason I have supported Mark Webber for so long.
I'm not expecting much from Vergne, who imo would benefit more from a year of being the reserve driver. I have high hopes for Ricciardo though - he came into a bad car mid-season and started beating Liuzzi (which Vettel also did in 2007.) Welcome to the forum!
The whole hierarchy sucks. Nothing against Vettel but the system of keeping him at the top of the pile means it is unequal and unfair racing. PS Having a holiday off work sucks. So bored
Yes. Like you Sovereign, I have absolutely nothing against Vettel either: he is simply doing his job - and doing it spectacularly well! But the hierarchy that long ago chose him to champion their cause, is not in the interests of competition or fair play. It reminds me of a previous situation which seriously reduced public interest in F1, and went some way to threatening the very existence of the thing they were (ahem) 'competing' inâ¦
Red Bull aren't a charity, neither driver set the world alight and big things are expected of Vergne and Ricciardo. I agree that Red Bull shouldn't be allowed four cars, but where do you draw the line? Ferrari have effectively put Perez in a Sauber seat, and di Resta has ties with Mercedes. Without the top teams putting their drivers in smaller teams we'd still have dross like De La Rosa and Bourdais racing rather than exciting young talents like Ricciardo and Perez. McLaren also have a strong technical partnership with Force India, and numerous teams down the back of the grid rely on customer parts from bigger teams to stay in business. Without this we'd probably have little more than half a dozen teams on the grid. Teams also share sponsors, so their are links financially as well as technically. If having a second team is that advantageous, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes could all afford to do it as well, I believe Toro Rosso only cost Red Bull £40m per year. Ferrari spend more than that on drivers alone.
I am sure everyone would agree that no team is a charity. I also agree that Buemi and Alguesuari hardly "set the world alight", as you say. As for drawing the line with Red Bull's four cars (or, taking your point, AG; similarities with Ferrari and Mercedes): we could make a start by outlawing coercion between them. As ever, these things may be difficult to police but with no rule against it, we should not be surprised at Helmut Marko ripping a strip off Alguesuari who was essentially just doing his job. The important point we must not lose sight of is that if some teams run four cars, (those who can afford it - albeit in two colour schemes), it has a direct negative impact on the less wealthy teams and ultimately reduces their capacity to compete and therefore reducing the spectacle which holds our interest.
