Honestly Rebel read a few books, but first **** off and stick to your ****e sites with no facts. Enjoy posting the tedious ****e they post, I'm sure everyone here will love it.
You two are arguing over semantics here. On the one hand, most of the Irish fleeing to Scotland were probably better off in that they got offered housing and food, albeit mostly through charitable contributions. Many of them also got jobs, although in many cases they were paid less than the going rate and had to work longer hours in terrible conditions. That wasn't unusual in those days, even for the indigenous population. It's also not that different for many immigrants arriving in this country today. Just think of the Chinese who died fishing for cockles a few years back. On the other hand, they did face a hostile "welcome" from many. In difficult economic times, immigrants are usually the first to suffer and that's what happened to the Irish, not just in Glasgow but in Edinburgh, Dundee etc. It was a hostile environment for many of them. Put it this way, the fact that the establishment in the form of the Church of Scotland were moved to publish a pamphlet such as the one cited above just demonstrates the level of hostility towards the Irish that was around at this time. However, I like to think about it in the same terms as the Highland clearances. A lot of historians and nationalists bemoan the fact that it happened but the truth is a lot of those people ended up with better lives in places like America, Canada, New Zealand etc. I'm sure their descendents, like the Irish descendents in Scotland, are glad their great-great-grandparents made the move all those years ago.
It is only tedious because you have chosen to refute something that is very obviously true. If you know **** all Willis, say **** all.
I am not arguing semantics. I am just saying that the club was born in an environment where there was a hostile attitude towards the immigrants. I cannot believe that anyone would want to argue the toss over that. It is a statement of fact that frames the article. No more, no less.
What Mr T and Md must remember to call the potato blight that destroyed the Irish potato crop completely as a famine is not been accurate. Through does dreadful years when Irish people were dying on the side of the road as they tried to reach a port and get out of the starving country, boat loads of grain and other crops were leaving different Irish ports full of grain and other foodstuffs. This food was taken by English absentee Landlords and sold to the wealthy people in England. I agree with Mick it was not unusual for existing citizens of a city to not welcome newcomers. Glasgow was no different to most other cities of the time, but what is different is that some people in Glasgow have not moved on. Some people from Glasgow and the West of Scotland still, hold grievances against Celtic. Is it because Celtic was founded to help to feed and nourish the poor people (mostly Irish) that had an exceptionally poor standard of living in the late 19th cenury.
To be fair MD ... Rebel was asked by me to start posting stuff that may be of interest of the Celtic fans that use these boards - specifically around stuff he will have knowledge of i.e the irish connection/irish politics/irish history etc These posts are not aimed at the huns who will defo disagree with the viewpoint given in these blogs.
I've not read any of the site apart from the About us or what ever it was called page, i asked Rebel a serious question, he replied with ****e (as usual) Like you said you asked him to post Irish connecting stuff, fair enough but if he can't just answer something that's clearly a mistake on the websites part he should just say so instead of dragging on tedious boring ****e which ultimately ends in the same tedious boring ****e insults. You would think Irish Immigrants where the only people who suffered in industrial Glasgow, it wasn't a hostile environment it was the way of life, much the same in every city of that era.
Imagine fleeing famine to end up in Glasgow and Lanarkshire instead of Australia, Canada or the US. Dumb ****s deserved everything they got here due to gross stupidity. As for the Church of Scotland, what the **** do you expect? It's a Church for **** sake. Since when did Churches make the correct moral decisions on things based on sound rationale? ****s would have us believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, the world was flat and the churches word was final and unquestionable.
Willis, do you disagree with things just because I post them, or do you genuinely think that Scotland was a welcoming environment? I am not opposed to you asking questions or disagreeing with the conclusions as they relate to the present Celtic board. I expect many amongst our support shall not accept them. I wouldn't mind discussing that. You have succeeded in sidetracking the topic by making an erroneous assertion. Either you are being mischievous, or you genuinely don't know about why and how our club came into being. That in itself is interesting. However, I would ask that when you do feel the need to interject that you at least have a grasp of the topic at hand before you do. Personally, I think it was somewhat inevitable that the club would move away from its charitable roots and if anything the club has reconnected with that over the last decade or so.
Passage to Scotland was cheaper to Scotland than it was to America, Canada and Australia. These people had nothing and often relied on sponsors to get them away. A significant part of the connection between Scotland and the North?North west comes from the fact that these were the ports going to Scotland.
Well at least they never ended up in Liverpool. Or that ****hole with those blacked up people that sing and speak funny....what's it called ........oh aye... Wales.
Answer me this, if 19th century Glasgow can be defined as hostile then what would you define 1920s/30s Glasgow as? a catastrophic war zone? I don't see how you can call 19th Century Glasgow hostile because that would mean it was surely on par with the 1920s/1930s when the majority of people believe that is when Glasgows sectarian divide truly began fermented by razor gangs, the Brigton boys, the Norman conks and the great depression. Glasgow was a prosperous city in the 19th century not a city full of religious divide that it has suffered from since what is quite possibly one of the darkest chapters in Glasgows entire history. And for the third time (i think) I'm not disagreeing with what you posted, i disagreed with the site if that site had a correct history section i would not have even bothered posting, if you take it as an attack on you personally then there's not really anything i can do about that, if i disagree with something I'll say unless it boils down to NI/IRA/Unionism/Republicanism because contrary to what you believe i find Medros posts on Ireland just as boring as you're posts mainly because I have no interest in it what so ever.
Ok, serious response. You are wrong. Irish immigrants would work for less money, so the indigenous population resented that and were openly hostile towards it. This marginalised and ghettoised this community creating an underclass. Prior to the 1840's there were more anti-Catholic organisations in Glasgow that there were Catholics. A large influx of Catholics did not result in the people in these organisations changing their ways, it only served in redoubling their prejudice. Celtic was formed against this backdrop. Nobody suggested that working class Glasgow was an easy place to be in the 1850's, 60's and 70's. It is suggested that Scotland was a hostile place for immigrants. The article did not support this statement because it is very patently and demonstrably accurate. Now it has been demonstrated to you, you'd think you might have the good grace to back off?
And i will point you towards the Social section of this wikipedia entry and while it is only one entry i believe it sums up quite well that the Irish where not the only people suffering from poverty during the 19th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calton_weavers You might think of me as some dull **** with no brains but i do take quite a bit of pride in knowing the history of where i was born and where i had the pleasure of growing up as part of the underclass. That's it for me, I've no interest in dragging this out any further.
And in 2012 you think that the ****s would let bygones be bygones but each generation is still born with a massive ****ing chip on their shoulder. At least you're well balanced. You have a chip on both shoulders.
