Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko says Sebastien Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari were given enough time to demonstrate whether they were potential grand prix winners, and lost their Toro Rosso seats because they failed to do so. Marko said he did not foresee any changes in Toro Rosso's role in the near future, even though it was becoming increasingly independent from Red Bull since having to switch to being a chassis constructor in its own right in 2010. Paraphrased and nicked from Autosport, but sums up recent debates about Toro Rosso's partnership with Red Bull from their side.
I wonder what they expect from these guys, i personally though they weren't doing a bad job, what do they want another Vettel at Monza? because that,s just not going to happen.
It still amazes me that the FIA allow Red Bull to have 2 teams. Anyway getting to the point people said the same about Button when he achieved nothing in his first 8 years of F1, now look at him. Marko should know its all about the car, put one of them in a Red Bull then we will have an appropriate measuring tool to see if they are winners.
Poor excuse. He should of said: "We use Toro Rosso to help Red Bull, we don't give a toss about helping young drivers make a name for themselves."
All I can say is at least the two new Toro Rosso boys look like they have tallent. however the 'old' two didn't exactly look worse, Alguersuari for example is still one of the youngest out there and surely looks like he has some potential.
Jaime pulled off some incredible performances, regularly getting some 7/8th place finishes despite having the 8th best car. What more was expected of him? Marko should realise that if the new teams hadn't entered F1 then Toro Rosso would be backmarkers. For the last few years the Toro Rosso car has been average and Jaime has pulled off some fantastic drives, despite being the youngest driver out there. I'm glad he rejected the HRT drive because he deserves better. In fact, he deserves better than the whole Red Bull circus.
I really don't understand what they expected from the two of them really. The top 4 teams are so far clear that a top 8 finish is unrealistic, so even if you assume Toro Rosso had the 5th best car all season, then 9th or 10th is the best they could expect. Factoring in that Renault were quick early on, and Force India in the second half of the season, then with the exception of Kobayashi beating the pair of them, they didn't exactly disgrace themselves, and I wouldn't say the Toro Rosso was the fifth fastest car at any point this season. Sure there was no standout race like Red Bull's precious Vettel at Monza, but they were doing fine. As TMM says, sticking them in a Red Bull would have given a far better impression of talent. When Vettel had the title wrapped up, if Red Bull & Toro Rosso really cared about developing young talent, they should have rotated the 4 drivers they had around, and given Alguersuari and Buemi a fair chance against Webber and Vettel.
This is all a load of non-sense. I really liked both drivers and its stupid to say that they were expected to do more in a pretty crappy car.
I agree in principle, but doubt they would have gotten away with using their influence over two teams in such a blatant way.
True, but if they can share a test driver, why can't they share a race driver. All it would have taken was for Toro Rosso to announce after one race that they were dropping Alguersari/Buemi for poor performances, replaced him at the next race with Ricciardo, and then come first practice Webber have an 'injury' meaning he can't complete, leaving only Alguersari/Buemi who could fill the seat. Until the FIA give specific guidelines on how much interaction Red Bull and Toro Rosso can have, I imagine they will continue to push their relationship.
Two points. Both of them I admit, are potentially contentious. This is Red Bull**** (as previously mentioned long ago on another forum which had a problem with asterisks and an even bigger problem with its founder and his messenger boys). Read that any way you like. Toro Rosso's 2011 drivers did not impress me enough. They both had their moments but the feeling I am left with is not dissimilar to the way I feel about Bruno Senna. In this sense, I am in danger of sounding like Marko; but please read on! Marko (and Mateschitz) has no real interest in anything but the first team's success. The reserve team is an experimental playground to be used and abused as he sees fit, so long as the name 'Red Bull' commands the headline. The Spanish translation may be a way for a driver to get an F1 seat, but unless its drivers play the game as the English translation demands - i.e. Red Bull drivers number 3 and 4 - they will need to attract attention from elsewhere in order to continue in F1.
Toro Rosso is Italian not Spanish, Cosi. And half the driver's don't seem to impress you, you'd think they weren't in the most elite open wheel series in the world.
Half the drivers? Well, I would say about half-dozen or so who I feel have not really proved themselves as top-flight.
I'd say the opposite. I think they're determined to maintain the benefit of owning two teams for as long as possible, and will therefore go out of their way not to draw more attention to the situation than necessary.
After due consideration I'm with Dr Marko on this one, why keep drivers that don't look like they'll amount to much more than journeymen also rans when you can try out some more young-blood and possibly find another gem? It's up to other teams to decide if Jaime or Seb have enough to warrant signing them, STR have made it clear that tehir cars are for the 'junior' driver program, 3 years is long enough in the junior program, possibly even too long. I don;t think we've seen the last of Jaime though, even if it takes him anothe r5 years to get back he'll still only be 27.
To be fair though... Isn't STR nothing more than journeyman also-rans? Lets face it... They have stated that they basically want to be a proving ground for young drivers, pretty much saying they are nothing than a tier 2 Red Bull team and have absolutely no aspirations to win titles. That's what GP2 is for. They should give up that grid spot for a team that wants to at least try and build something rather than being Red Bull's reserve team.
I agree with you entirely on that score sgt, as I've expressed elsewhere, but that isn't what the threads about (not having a dig). But on that note there is one thing I will add, they may be an 'also ran' team, but they are giving young drivers a chance, they aren't going for tried and tested journeymen, looking for their next Vettel, and who knows, in Vergne or Ricciardo they may have it, surely that's better than a seat going to someone Rubens or Trulli? Edit: apologies Sgt, i gnored the 2nd half of the title.
I think all of the above contributions make various, valid points. The essential aspect which is common to all of these arguments is that Mateschitz and Marko are fielding four drivers, and - whilst trying out drivers in their 2nd rate team - appear to be manipulating their unique situation to advantage.
