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Do we need a proper target man ?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by theHotHead, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. cjuliennech1

    cjuliennech1 Member

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    Wow i actually can't believe that people are suggesting that we play more direct football, have they been watching a different team for the last 7 or 8 years. We are not a team geared towards playing the long ball, we are a great footballing side and i personally wouldn't change that, and rvp is a fantastic frontman and to be honest i don't think he gets enough praise for his ability in the air. Our problem is that we don't get enough men in the box especially when we are at home and we are not clinical enough in front of goal. Also if we were to bring in a target man then we would have to switch to a 4-4-2 formation and that formation is old and out-dated and we would be out-numbered in midfield, look around all the big teams play 4-3-3 meaning that you can dominate possession.
     
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  2. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I still think we should give Chamakh a chance. I agree with HotHead that he should play right up against the last man as an out and out CF. I think his form is bad at the moment, but he's not had any games, so it's not surprising. Maybe a run in the reserves would boost his performances? He can score goals. Let's hope he has a good comp at the ACON and comes back full of confidence.
     
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  3. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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    Direct doesn't mean CB hoofing the ball into the box.
    Our midfield almost always passes sideways, then back, then sideways etc,
    What I want to see is a midfield which immediately looks for a defence splitting pass to someone in front.....
    (and not like Ramsey who always seems to pass BEHIND the player).
     
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  4. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I think what is being suggested is that we change our formation to suit the circumstances. I don't think a direct game need necessarily mean that we just pump it long and hope for the best, but I do think there are times when a ball over the top could be better than trying to play through the defence. We used to use this tactic with Adebayor quite often and it worked well, also against QPR there were a few times when one ball over the top caught the defence out and presented us with chances.

    I just think we need to be a bit more dynamic at times. 4-3-3 is a good formation for the way we play, but I think we've got scope to mix it up when needed.
     
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  5. The Bonstar Wandit

    The Bonstar Wandit Well-Known Member

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    against the big teams play 433, but against the smaller ones, who play 442, then also play 442 so there's an extra striker on the pitch and RvP can use his abilities in the hole.

    Not getting enough players in the box is a classic Arsenal issue - but a switch to a 2-striker system should help this.

    When the ball is down the wing, i'd expect the AM, Striker, and opposite winger to all be busting a gut to get in the box - this happens so rarely with Arsenal it's laughable sometimes.
     
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  6. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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  7. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    If you watch all 119 of Bergkamp's assists (there is a video on utube) you will soon realize that Bergkamp laid on most goals as through balls to a sprinting Anelka, Henri, Pires, Overmars, Viera etc.

    RVP does not have the pace to do that. If you want to return to that formula, we need to move Walcott inside, and teach him how to finish.

    RVP cannot play that role. He is more of an Alan Shearer. If Walcott and RVP can get the hang of swapping positions at the right time; Walcott playing through the middle when they break and RVP playing through the middle elsewise, then it might work, but you cant play that way if you don't have the players for it. Needless to say we don't have a Bergkamp either
     
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  8. Bergkamp a Dutch master

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    you make good points about Bergkamp's assists. However we don't often even trouble defenders with quick balls to feet in the box.
    We play endless balls back and forth hoping for a gap to appear.
    Urgent balls aimed at RVP at foot level or any other guy who gets there would be welcome.
    In that way we may well start getting pens through rash tackles.
     
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  9. MrWright!

    MrWright! Active Member

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    Just imagine, If Theo plays in the middle, With Myachi on one side, Gervinho on the other, with OXO just behind Theo

    the pure pace would make our counter attacks/build up play stupidly dangerous!, who could catch any of them?!?!
     
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  10. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    Spot on !!! We don't play on the counter attack now, we over pass the ball endlessly.

    You wouldn't say Man U play long ball football, but look at the pace at which they counter normally. Fabregas would receive the ball deep, look up and PINNNNNNNG .... 50 yard ball to Adebayor's feet bypassing the defence and he is through on goal. This is what we need. We didn't do it all the time but we had that option.

    We need to mix it up, there is a time to play keep ball and a time to hit the fookers quickly.
     
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  11. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    No we dont need a proper 'target man'.

    Not unless we plan to revert back to a 1990's style 442.(which would be ******ed)

    We do need another quality forward though.
     
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  12. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    So how about RvP in the Bergkamp role, sitting behind Loic Remy? He's pacy and he can finish, could be one of Wengers brilliant french signings. he's only in his early 20's too, so he has plenty of time to improve further.
     
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  13. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    I know, there probably will never be another player like Bergkamp, but RvP could do a decent job in the hole. Either that or we sign Honda, and have him play in the hole, with RvP as the lone frontman. Either is better than Chamakh.
     
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  14. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    I think Remy is a carbon copy of a young Henry, the similarities are striking. Agree with Jayram, whilst RVP can create he doesn't have the execution or speed of thought of Bergkamp.

    The problem with not having a target man is it forces us to play slow football all the time, we don't break with any real urgency, with give opponents time to defend, it also means we don't utilise the speed of Walcott.
     
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  15. The Bonstar Wandit

    The Bonstar Wandit Well-Known Member

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    That's a very astute point hothead. I thought this season with Gervinho would see the return of fast counters with both Theo and him available on opposite wings, giving options & stretching the defense. Sadly it hasn't happened.
     
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  16. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    Actually, if we drop RvP into the hole, that might hurt us. We need him up front, scoring goals, putting him in the hole will get him assists, but it takes away our leading goalscoring threat.
     
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  17. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Actually No I dont agree with this either.


    Firstly we dont have old fashioned 'wingers' in our team to play a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1.

    We have 'forwards'. Neither Walcott or Gervinho is suited to playing on the wing in a 4-4-2.
    The other thing is that if we reverted to a 4-4-2 everyone would just play a 4-5-1 against us and overwhelm us in midfield. (like they learned to do in 2005-2006) I posted a few articles on this before but basically the 4-4-2 is now antiquated.

    There a very few traditional wingers left in the game as more and more teams adopt 4-3-3/4-5-1 and various four banded formations that allow for more fluidity in the play.


    Q: The last team to win the league with a 442? A: Arsenal in 2003-2004

    Q: The last team to win the champions league with a 442? Real Madrid in 2001-2002

    Q: The last team to win a major international tournamant with a 442: France in 1998.
     
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