1. I wish to first state that you mods should not move this to the "thread" if it can even be called such about the published evidence like you did to me yesterday. Having spent 1/2 hour writing my thoughts i found it moved into a disgrace of an article polluted by some of the worst clown on the internet. don't do that again. 2. this thread is a new thread intended to deal with the LFC statement not the facts or non facts of the case it relates to nor the guilt or otherwise of the individuals involved. ........................................................ I think its high time to that a proper look at what our club published as offical statements. "It is our strongly held conviction that the Football Association and the panel it selected constructed a highly subjective case against Luis Suarez based on an accusation that was ultimately unsubstantiated. The FA and the panel chose to consistently and methodically accept and embrace arguments leading to a set of conclusions that found Mr. Suarez to "probably" be guilty while in the same manner deciding to completely dismiss the testimony that countered their overall suppositions. Mr. Evra was deemed to be credible in spite of admitting that he himself used insulting and threatening words towards Luis and that his initial charge as to the word used was somehow a mistake. The facts in this case were that an accusation was made, a rebuttal was given and there was video of the match. The remaining facts came from testimony of people who did not corroborate any accusation made by Mr. Evra. In its determination to prove its conclusions to the public through a clearly subjective 115-page document, the FA panel has damaged the reputation of one of the Premier League's best players, deciding he should be punished and banned for perhaps a quarter of a season. This case has also provided a template in which a club's rival can bring about a significant ban for a top player without anything beyond an accusation. Nevertheless, there are ultimately larger issues than whether or not Luis Suarez has been treated fairly by the Football Association in this matter. There are important points we want to make today that overshadow what has occurred during the past two months. The issue of race in sports, as in other industries, has a very poor history. Far too often, and in far too many countries, the issues of racism and discrimination have been covered over or ignored. In America, where Liverpool ownership resides, there was a shameful bigotry that prevented black athletes from competing at the highest levels for decades. English football has led the world in welcoming all nationalities and creeds into its Premier League and its leagues below, and Liverpool Football Club itself has been a leader in taking a progressive stance on issues of race and inclusion. The Luis Suarez case has to end so that the Premier League, the Football Association and the Club can continue the progress that has been made and will continue to be made and not risk a perception, at least by some, that would diminish our commitment on these issues. Liverpool Football Club have supported Luis Suarez because we fundamentally do not believe that Luis on that day - or frankly any other - did or would engage in a racist act. Notably, his actions on and off the pitch with his teammates and in the community have demonstrated his belief that all athletes can play together and that the colour of a person's skin is irrelevant. Continuing a fight for justice in this particular case beyond today would only obscure the fact that the Club wholeheartedly supports the efforts of the Football Association, the Football League and the Premier League to put an end to any form of racism in English football. It is time to put the Luis Suarez matter to rest and for all of us, going forward, to work together to stamp out racism in every form both inside and outside the sport. It is for this reason that we will not appeal the eight-game suspension of Luis Suarez." ............................................... I find this deeply troubling and embaressing to be frank. The club strongly and forcefully reiterates its position from previous statements that in fact accuses the FA of conducting a kangaroo court. It calls the report published by the FA an effective pack of lies and again protests strongly as to suarez's innocence.. then promptly climbs down and scurries away with our collective tails between our legs by accepting the ban on the grounds that continuing would only damage the work done on inclusion... well my god i can't see how both parts of this can be sustained as a position. If the FA are doing what LFC have jsut said they did it is hugely damaging to just what the club is tlaking about. I feel this is a total climb down form the position the club put itself in on the day of the suspension and that just goes to prove that that first statement was in anger and not thought through. I for one find it deeply embaressing that club would go do this in this way as it sets us apart from the football community, if we feel this evidence is so poor then why was a large aprt of it simply accepted? I just feel a very large aprt of this is niavity and amateur hour.
I read this as 'it would never stand up in court' but as it's the FA, they can do what they want and we won't win. So to avoid it spiraling out of control and so as not to distract from the anti racism work done everywhere, we've reluctantly accepted the unnecessary medicine dished out by the FA and move on. This was further evident in Suarez's statement.
I have to take issue with you on one point here MITO - the club does not call the report a pack of lies. The club states clearly that the panel constructed a subjective case to convict Luis of the charge while selectively disregarding evidence to the contrary. This is of great importance as it is (in subtext) stating that the FA gave terms of reference for the investigation that would preclude a fair and even investigation of the charge in its entirety. Remember the opening statement of the report said that the charge would be investigated objectively, then spent the entire document looking subjectively at what happened. Had the investigation been "Did Luis Suarez use the word Negro?" (which would be an objective investigation), it would have been a simple open and shut case - 4 match ban. However, failing to follow through with the threat of appealing indicates that the club thinks that the FA will also determine the scope of the appeal in such a way as to make it worthless and counterproductive. Suarez has effectively been left twisting in the wind over the entire episode. And the worst thing is the repeated accusations that the club and Suarez are racist. So the FA have, despite their written statement to the contrary, in the extraordinary level of punishment levied against Suarez and the Club, associated racism with us. Interestingly enough, despite the racist insult (either Sudac or South American) used by Evra against Suarez which instigated the entire affair (and the definition of 'racist' under UN terms is clear and includes regions or countries of origin), no charge is laid at his door under either FA rule Rule E3(1) abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards another player Rule E3(2) including a reference to any one or more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability (an "aggravating factor"). A level of double standards which would be shocking elsewhere, but receives a shrug and a "go figure" response when addressing the FA...
I support the club's stance on this totally, an appeal would drag on too long and I don't think the club or Suarez would wan't to have that hanging over them, im glad Suarez and the club did'nt apologise and im also glad they both made statement's condeming the f.a's verdict but to drag this on possibly into next season would be damaging to the club imo. All this mean's now is that the f.a have opened up a can of worm's here from now on player's can be found guilty based on what a rival player accuses them of.
ok fair enough a subjective view of of the evidence then. I read the entire document. it sets out the available evidence (but not all of it at the start eg kuyts dutch testimony which was bad for us) in a timeline, then sets out scenarios and tests those against the evidence.. ok so the two main scenarios are if all of what each player says is the truth and not really what can actually be proven but in the end they had to fill in gaps. If you read the final part of the report it does set out the 4 match ban but highlights 7 occasions of the word based purely on supposition and that is where they aggrevation comes in. This is their grounds for appeal. the club do not say this i ntheir statement though... they state "The facts in this case were that an accusation was made, a rebuttal was given and there was video of the match. The remaining facts came from testimony of people who did not corroborate any accusation made by Mr. Evra. In its determination to prove its conclusions to the public through a clearly subjective 115-page document, the FA panel has damaged the reputation of one of the Premier League's best players, deciding he should be punished and banned for perhaps a quarter of a season. This case has also provided a template in which a club's rival can bring about a significant ban for a top player without anything beyond an accusation." and "The FA and the panel chose to consistently and methodically accept and embrace arguments leading to a set of conclusions that found Mr. Suarez to "probably" be guilty while in the same manner deciding to completely dismiss the testimony that countered their overall suppositions." for me this is something that cannot be sustained with the "greater good" as it implies that the FA in fact acted wrongly. anyway one othe rvital point is the FA do not contend this issue of the phrase south american has anythign to do with starting this. this started with a foul, evra confronting suarez and talking about his sister (caught on camera but never shown in public) then getting in his face. no evidence of what suarez said then exists. the referee gives no testimony on what happened when he blew his whistle and corrected them both that would sustain the charge. the fact is suarez admitted what he said in front of the ref and form there the FA choose to believe as what was in the refs report (from dalglish and comolli but second hand through 3 languages from suarez) as evidence suarez is unreliable therefore the impressive evra must be telling the truth so they add up every word to get 7 offenses.... south american occurred well after if at all the offense began, it seems. the fact is the club has twice accused the fa of doing something very wrong in how the concluded the thing yet are using the "greater good" as an excuse not to appeal. I would rather; 1. we appeal and stick to a consistent line OR 2. we do not use the important anti racism work as an excuse not to appeal and make what i view as a political statement in the same breath. If we value the anti racism campaign as we should then we should not use it to make a case that the fa are playing games.
NO! the club did not and could not appeal because the evdience was absolutely compelling. He was guilty as sin and no appeal will have stood any chance. Just shouting "I am innocent I am innocent I am innocent" fools no one. Just like the 2 murderers of stephen lawrence proclaiming they are innocent while going down to jail for 15 years, just fools no one and deserve contempt.
Sick of reading this..he was accused and admitted it. Seen too many stupid statements about how a player can accuse another player with no evidence and get them banned.Are you really that deluded? As for the statement.massive backdown from LFC.Do I think Suarez is racist.No.But this whole issue could have been handled much better.
I agree with this Gaza - I don't think Suarez is racist it's possibly just winding each other up gone too far. What suprises me is Liverpool or the player being unwilling to make a statement such as ''whilst no there was no racial intent in what was said, we understand how it could have been wrongly misintreptrated so we apologise if this has happened''. In general life if I unintentionally offend someone I would usually apologise for the unintended offence caused but stress it was a misunderstanding.
In a way I agree that the scousers managed to lose on both counts: 1. They got a severe 8 match ban losing their best player 2. They managed to upset the rest of society by appearing to trivialise an important race issue. Someone should have taken KD aside and say either we attempt to reduce the sentence or we accept and come out smelling of roses.
Shut up you ****ing *****. You have no idea what you are even talking about. Piss off back to your own board and stop talking nonsense about something you have no clue about. Comparing a murder trial to a case about two footballer's Clown.
"upset the rest of society". How you can compare this to a racially-provoked murder is utterly beyond me. Talk about scaremongering. It's two rather unpleasant and overpaid footballers winding each other up - NOT overt racism, which I have no time for. Liverpool didn't handle it well. That is all. Now shut it
This so typical of "Suarez" type of behaviour. By abusing people with swear words you think you can get your own way... GUILTY AS SIN!!
I have to agree with this, i simply cannot belive the stance LFC has taken over this, noone thinks suarez is a racist but he went too far. I am a black liverpool fan i have lived in spain for 6 years and have travelled south america for 12 months, i can tell you what he said does have racist conatations if the person saying it is not a extremely good friend or a family member. Are we to really belive that suarez was refering to Evra in a friendly manner ? along with pinching evra to defuse the situation ? As a club i cant help but feel let down by LFC, on every occasion they could have released a statement to words of the above effect they dont and stick by the player when everyone knows whats been said ! We should admit that what suarez said was out of order, he crossed the line and it wont happen again ! anything else comes across as endorsing that kind of behaviour. Everything from the T-shirts to the failure to make any kind of apology is a PR disaster, its as if Alex ferguson is running our PR department as i couldnt think of a worse way to handle this, other than turning out in Free the Merseyside 1 White hooded masks.
So typical of Evra type of behaviour - continue a wind up to the point that people insult you... Go steal Oxygen elsewhere Satansmith...
I honestly don't care what any United fan has to say on the situation because they are going to back there player to the hilt so I don't go on your board expecting to hear United fan's supporting Suarez but it work's both way's Liverpool fan's don't trust the f.a's bullshit evidence so don't come on here with your patronising question's about us being deluded.
I fully understand your position mate. I think that the scousers have let all their black players and fans down. They chose Suarez over them and I honestly think they will regret it.
guilty as sin with the right outcome and after his ban he should be sold and got rid of as there is no place for this idiot in the british game...should have got longer imo, and kenny has not come out in a good light in this sorry affair.....
Agree. Kenny Dalglish managed to get the worst of both worlds. He lost his player for a massive 8 games AND managed to alienate all the black football fans at the same time. As someone else said, it was as if his PR team was being run by SAF. It couldn't have been more disastrous for him and the club. Instead of the whole affair being shut down and forgotten, it is still up in the air and the negativity is still on.
