This is why Red Bull should not be allowed to have two teams in F1. In fact I have the opinion that it would have been better if Red Bull should never have come into F1 at all. Dietrich Mateschitz and his creepy little chum Helmut Marko who had no talent whatsoever as a driver allowed to swing the axe on talented drivers that are/were so much better than him. The idea of Red Bull telling little teams like HRT and Caterham where to stick their drivers, also. It made so angry that Marko goes into a completely different team that should be racing each other for competition wearing a Red Bull jacket telling a Toro Rosso driver what to do. All for Marko's golden boy Vettel because no one should get in the way of Vettel, of course. I feel that someone as good as Jaime lost his seat because Marko had a problem with him, whether on judging him on his talent like you should. Everything is so fake at Red Bull, they are worse than Ferrari were. And Toro Rosso is just a team for finding Vettel's whipping boy when they flog off Mark Webber when he get's too old. [video=youtube;yB8MpgDnDQw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB8MpgDnDQw&feature=player_embedded[/video]
Remember this, Red Bull won't dominate forever and the only reason they have a good car is because of 1 man. Adrian Newey. When he goes, Red Bull will fall. They are a rich team but are nowhere near the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren. These two have always built good cars bar 2 or 3 failures.
Not a very intelligent move from Alguersuari. I see nothing wrong here, Marko is telling Alguersuari that he acted stupid. He has every right to do so. But interesting to see how this video is used to make anti-Red Bull/Vettel statements. Just saw on youtube that even Nazi comments and total hate comments against German/Austria were posted, really low. And btw, you seem to forget that almost every great F1 driver has given such kind of signs, so nothing special in there.
Another thought: Title of your thread "Absolutely Disgraceful" ..... Yes, there are such things...like saying "Dietrich Mateschitz and his creepy little chum Helmut Marko who had no talent whatsoever as a driver allowed to swing the axe on talented drivers that are/were so much better than him." and "Everything is so fake at Red Bull, they are worse than Ferrari were. And Toro Rosso is just a team for finding Vettel's whipping boy when they flog off Mark Webber when he get's too old." That hits your definition of "Absolutely Disgraceful", not what Marko or Vettel did in Korea.
Maybe I have a strong opinion tomcat, but Jaime did nothing wrong there, it was Free Practice, and he had the right be infront of Vettel.
What you didn't see in the video was that Alguersuari had already let Vettel past on the previous lap. Then Vettel made a mistake and Alguersuari was ahead again. Marko's reaction shows that Toro Rosso are only on the grid for Red Bull's benefit - and if there are rules stopping teams from having more than two cars, why should Toro Rosso be allowed to compete? If frustrates me how Toro Rosso take advantage of certain situations to help Red Bull. Notice how Alguersuari blocked Alonso in Singapore this year, allowing Webber to overtake him. Notice how Buemi yielded against Webber at Abu Dhabi 2010. Notice how the Toro Rosso's held up Hamilton towards the end of the Spanish Grand Prix this year, briefly giving Vettel a bit of breathing space. What frustrates me even more is that the FIA don't have any solid evidence to punish them for it. Toro Rosso can work out tactics before the race or give coded messages during the race. Teams orders are fine, but doing it with two teams is a disgrace, and it surely violates this:
I would like to apologise if this article has caused any offence as that was certainty not my intention. Emotions were running high and I felt like Jaime had been treated extremely unfairly by Marko and Co. My feelings are still clear though and I believe Red Bull's position with two teams is not good to the sport.
Just noticed in the video that Vettel had the supersoft and Alguersuari the soft, so its clear that the much slower Alguersari was blocking him unnecessarily.
You have absolutely nothing to apologise for. Your comments were obviously your opinion and that is precisely what a forum is for. Strong opinions will nearly always unearth the opposite view with a counter-argument, but you did nothing wrong CGen (in my opinion!). Tomcat's response was strong, but at least he has presented his view without lowering himself to the insults seen by less restrained individuals… I think Forza makes a good point here. For what it's worth, I also think Red Bull's way of doing things is effectively pulling too many strings and is not in the interests of competition. But this is surely to be expected when one considers the Red Bull mentality shown towards Mark Webber.
I'm not going to lie, Red Bulls connection with Toro Roso is a bit too much for my liking. I would be all for the big teams having feeder teams if the grid needed it, but it doesn't and the rules are there saying no.
so algesuari isn't allowed to get his own lap in so that vetteal could get his in? i agree, marko's reaction is completely exaggerated, "it is unacceptable" is completely ridiculous, it was saturday morning for gods sake!!! he had already won the championship by then anyway, what a douche
I think Mclaren should just buy a 13th team, to run two joke drivers that throw bananas and stuff at the other drivers like in Mario Kart. Or maybe have one drive a Hummer, so if Lewis is second with Vettel first, the Hummer just parks on the Grid as the other drivers finish their first lap, Vettel approaches it and brakes hard because he doesn't know it's there, and since the Mclaren's know all about it, they drive round on the grass, and then Jenson and Lewis can take the lead!
Well Samurai, I like your comment; at least, the bit that's related to F1: it's funny! The rest of what I can see - which appears to bear no relation to F1 and makes up the largest part of your post - is beyond me!
I'm pretty sure Seb has been bolloked by Helmut in the past, he is meant to be supporting all RBR drivers under his wing though Jaime looked to be getting too big for his boots and actually thought he could have an argument with his superior. "disgrace?" Nah... "Reason for getting sacked?" Maybe, but unlikely... "Did Jaime deserve it after what Forza points out?" No! "Does this have anything to do with Seb?" shut up please...just shut up Anyway I liked to point out in the past why through the 10-11 seasons how it was likely that Jenson would be left in front of Seb without pitting once trying to slow him down for a lap or two. Though this is considered "fair" even if the car behind Seb was 9/10 Lewis... All's fair in love and war.
It's my major complaint against RBR. I have no complaints over the supposed treatment of Webber, he isn't as fast and constanty slates the team in the press, if I was team leader I have no doubts which of the 2 I would back most, it's the one that can, and will, do what I pay him to do, without complaint. The Toro rosso connection has to be severed though. McLaren blocking a redbull so a McLaren can catch up is ok, a toro rosso letting a redbull through and blocking a Mclaren or Ferrari is highly questionable and, to my mind, breaks all sorts of sporting laws.
No. All is not fair in love and war. This is why we have divorce courts and hold the notion of 'war crimes'. As for the comparison you make with Button and Hamilton, Silver; it's a curved ball and it's gone out of bounds! - There is a very important consideration you seem to be overlooking: Alquesuari is not Vettel's team mate! An F1 team is allowed to field up to two cars. Teams are only allowed to have two cars - not four. This is the very source of the problem with Mateschitz fielding four cars and, through Marko, pulling the strings of his two Team Principals: Christian Horner - in essence, nothing more than Marko's mouthpiece - and Franz Tost; and is one of the biggest reasons Ferrari want to legitimise extra cars. The rules are very clear: an F1 team may field up to two cars for each race. Not three. Not four. Just two…
What is Helmut Marko's position in Toro Rosso? Why does he work for/control two teams? Is there anyone else in F1 working in two teams? I can't think of anyone. Isn't there a law or something? I'm surprised no other team is complaining about the RBR/STR situation; Ferrari and McLaren should be up in arms. I wonder how long Red Bull can keep this going; they were supposed to reduce their links to Toro Rosso some time ago now. Still, I can now see why Alguersuari had to go. Red Bull want a compliant patsy to back up Vettel when Webber goes, not someone who'll speak up and stand his ground. Sorry, make that three compliant patsies. Shame on Red Bull, I hope Jaime can find another seat, he deserves one more than some others, IMO.
Considering the match fixing scandals of other sports recently I'm surprised the FIA are allowing F1 to lose credibility with the RBR/Torro Rosso debacle. Simply ban feeder teams in the same Formula. 1 team, 2 drivers.
